First hand gives me a bad image

[Captain R]

Hand 1: Isn't this how everyone plays it on the flop? Or do you guys just c/f or c/c? I think preflop a fold is better, because we're getting at best 4:.75 on our small pair.

On the flop, this is how I usually play it with this position. On the turn I would just check it normally, but I figured if the guy doesn't have an A/K he will probably fold and I can get it heads-up against a possible draw. So I bet. On the flop I was hoping button had AQ/AJ. Then on the turn, I was hoping button had QQ/JJ/TT... funny how that changes. :-)

Hand 2: I folded.

[Captain R]

[ QUOTE ]
You played the fours like a LAGtard.

Any hands after that, you could have made a lot of money if you started connecting and hitting your flops. I know I would have played as many hands against you as I could and would have called you down forever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, after that I knew I had to shutdown into "I always got it" mode. I tried to bluff one pot on the river, but a guy called me down with 3rd pair. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[gameoverjc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dont you mean your image is fantastic? you're gonna get paid off up the ying-yang!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha, yeah I guess you could call it fantastic... I raised the BB on the turn in a multiway pot for a free showdown and he had KJ on a J-T-8-5-x board. (I had QJ and didn't show). I'm sure everyone thought I had crap.

I was caught stealing once. Two other pots I bet through on the button when checked to and I'm sure everyone thought I was stealing. Another hand I raised preflop w/ AJ and bet the whole way through and caught my gutshot on the river and got paid off in two spots (board went Q-T-5-8-K).

[/ QUOTE ]

so basically u put in 2 bets with 95% chance of having the worst of it hoping to suck out, and would've received a c/c (doubt guy with k-j is value betting river)... what limits do u play again?

u sound like a lagtard fish new to lhe. ur plays all sound like massive spewage -ev moves. gl adjusting.

[Captain R]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Ha, yeah I guess you could call it fantastic... I raised the BB on the turn in a multiway pot for a free showdown and he had KJ on a J-T-8-5-x board. (I had QJ and didn't show). I'm sure everyone thought I had crap.


[/ QUOTE ]

so basically u put in 2 bets with 95% chance of having the worst of it hoping to suck out, and would've received a c/c (doubt guy with k-j is value betting river)... what limits do u play again?

u sound like a lagtard fish new to lhe. ur plays all sound like massive spewage -ev moves. gl adjusting.

[/ QUOTE ]

20-40.

There are so many things wrong with your post, where do I even begin... do you know how to play mid-limit poker? The hand went like this -- 3 limpers, I limp in LP with QJo. Flop is J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB checks, BB bets, 2 callers, I call, SB folds.

Turn is 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. BB bets, MP calls, I raise for a free showdown on the river.

If you don't understand this play, you need to go back to the six.

[gameoverjc]

I don't understand this play? You hit the Q or 9 you need and bet, you think he calls with K-J? You are in position and no players are sandwhiched in, river bricks out, he bets again you can fold without losing a bet.

Are you setting him up for a play? Meta game? If so, you didn't bet the river to make it any good.

I honestly don't understand raising there on the turn. BB bet into a multiway pot, he is obv stronger then q-j. Your lucky he didn't have 2pair/set/straight and 3bet u on turn and u losing a lot more.

Your whole line is -ev.

Ok, I explained my thoughts on the hand. Yours? If you have good reasoning, I have never heard it before. Would love to hear some insight.

[jeramy576]

[ QUOTE ]
I honestly don't understand raising there on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ] If you could read, he raised on the turn for a free showdown.

[ QUOTE ]
Your lucky he didn't have 2pair/set/straight and 3bet u on turn and u losing a lot more.

[/ QUOTE ]
If dude 3bets he insta mucks, its not that hard of a concept.

[Captain R]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand this play? You hit the Q or 9 you need and bet, you think he calls with K-J? You are in position and no players are sandwhiched in, river bricks out, he bets again you can fold without losing a bet.


[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see. River is a Q or a 9. He checks, I bet, he folds. I get 2 BB out of him with the turn raise.

In your weak-tight game, you just call the turn. River is a Q or a 9, he checks, you bet, he folds. You get 1 BB out of him.

[ QUOTE ]

Are you setting him up for a play? Meta game? If so, you didn't bet the river to make it any good.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you know what the term "free showdown" means? Let me help you out -- maybe he folds QJ. Maybe he has KQ. Maybe he has a flush draw. Maybe this way I lose 2 bets either way.

If you're not habitually value-betting a Jx on the river out of the BB in this situation... well there's $40/hour I just earned you.

[ QUOTE ]

I honestly don't understand raising there on the turn. BB bet into a multiway pot, he is obv stronger then q-j.


[/ QUOTE ]

He obviously has QJ beat on a J-T-5-8 two diamond board because he's leading out of the BB on the flop/turn? What are you smoking? If you have J2 in an unraised pot, what are you doing, check-calling the flop and then check-folding the turn? No wonder you're on a long downswing.

[ QUOTE ]

Your lucky he didn't have 2pair/set/straight and 3bet u on turn and u losing a lot more.


[/ QUOTE ]

If this particular passive BB player 3-bets me on the turn out of position, he's got the nuts and I'm folding.

[ QUOTE ]

If you have good reasoning, I have never heard it before. Would love to hear some insight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anything else you don't understand? I'm going to have to start charging you for this... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Mr. Lagtard Fish.

[Captain R]

Back to our regularly scheduled program -- so no-one check-raises the flop with 44? Or leads on the Ace turn?

I don't think it's that laggy. I think the check-raise is standard. I'm hoping he has AQ/AJ and it's a big pot. I admit the turn lead is questionable, because now I go from hoping he has AQ/AJ to hoping he has QQ/JJ/TT and won't overcall... but hey, it's a big pot (8 BB)!

[andyfox]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I fold the pocket 4s here. Since button raise pre-flop, everyone else's check on the flop doesn't necesssarily mean they didn't catch a piece--maybe a big piece--of the flop. There's a flush draw and a straight draw and 37 times out of 47 the turn card is going to be an overcard to my 4s.

[gameoverjc]

[ QUOTE ]
He obviously has QJ beat on a J-T-5-8 two diamond board because he's leading out of the BB on the flop/turn? What are you smoking? If you have J2 in an unraised pot, what are you doing, check-calling the flop and then check-folding the turn? No wonder you're on a long downswing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually most of the pots I play are vs lagtard's who don't fold in multiway pots... hence my reasoning.

I appreciate you explaining to me your thought process on the hand.

I still don't believe the two top pair hands that beat u, K-J and A-J will fold to a raise, hence u lose. And a set/2pair takes you to 3 town, hence u miss out on seeing the river.

If a guy is leading a weak Jack from the bb 2 streets in I think he has some serious leaks in his play... just my thought unless he is playing shorthanded.


Essentially your putting an extra bet in there drawing for 5-8 outs... and making a weaker Jack to stop leading into you. 1 extra bet at 5 to 1 dog or maybe 10 to 1, with a chance of not seeing a river, and also causing the only hand (like a weak jack) to stop leading into you/paying you off... I still see it as minus ev.

Then again I been changing my game since I ran super hot and was crushing for 8bb's a game to a 'weak tight' one since my downswing.

Anyone else have thoughts on this reasoning?