Do people overdo attacking the bringin in razz?

[Spladle]

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But he knows he is almost certainly a 3-1 dog on 5th and 6th. It is almost impossible for me to be paired, since I called on 3rd and called all the way along. The bringin hand is often stronger than it appears.

I could be way behind from my point of view, but not from his point of view.

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If you'd posted this hand without showing us his hole cards, I'd have told you to fold sixth.

If I had your opponent's cards, I'd have played it the same way he did up until the river. I would have check/folded the river unless I made an 8.

[Bartholow]

I'm going to weigh in on the side of folding on 3rd, though I do think it is close. I'd be much more likely to defend in a big ante game.

I think your opponent basically played fine, he could maybe slow down on 6th but if he checks he has to call a bet still, you probably won't raise, so betting is ok.

[*TT*]

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I'm going to weigh in on the side of folding on 3rd, though I do think it is close. I'd be much more likely to defend in a big ante game.

I think your opponent basically played fine, he could maybe slow down on 6th but if he checks he has to call a bet still, you probably won't raise, so betting is ok.

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1) The opponent played horrible, he shouldn't attempt a steal with only an 8 and 2 big cards, he needs at least one baby in his hand or its not worth it. And he also should have slowed down considerably by 5th street if he knew he was up against a a good player. Lets not give the donkey any credit, he sucks.

2) If the OP knew the villain was capable of this type of play then he should absolutely call down.

3) with 2 bike cards and an overcard I will defend here against a probable steal. Hero is getting 1.70:1, its really close but the pot is big enough to play on if the opponent is a known stealer/plays too many hands/is very aggressive. The J hides the strength of the downcards nicely against the average donk. A quote from SOP "4. If the hero is the high card he can call a raise in he has 2 bike cards, the hand is live, there are only a few players, and lastly if you are defending against a steal. This play is far better with a T than it is with a K."

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[betgo]

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I'm going to weigh in on the side of folding on 3rd, though I do think it is close. I'd be much more likely to defend in a big ante game.

I think your opponent basically played fine, he could maybe slow down on 6th but if he checks he has to call a bet still, you probably won't raise, so betting is ok.

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1) The opponent played horrible, he shouldn't attempt a steal with only an 8 and 2 big cards, he needs at least one baby in his hand or its not worth it. And he also should have slowed down considerably by 5th street if he knew he was up against a a good player. Lets not give the donkey any credit, he sucks.

2) If the OP knew the villain was capable of this type of play then he should absolutely call down.

3) with 2 bike cards and an overcard I will defend here against a probable steal. Hero is getting 1.70:1, its really close but the pot is big enough to play on if the opponent is a known stealer/plays too many hands/is very aggressive. The J hides the strength of the downcards nicely against the average donk.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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I think villain was right to steal here, because he picks up the pot enough. However, he needed to slow down, and he kind of got trapped when he caught good.

I probably only call with two wheel cards, but some people might call with a J and weaker cards against an apparent steal from an 8, so villain might have thought the 6 or 7 could pair me. The 8 can't pair me, as it is the case 8. With a K showing, it should be even more obvious I had 2 wheel cards.

[*TT*]

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I think villain was right to steal here, because he picks up the pot enough. However, he needed to slow down, and he kind of got trapped when he caught good.

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don't make me quote SOP [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] It was a bad steal. But I do agree that if the villain thinks he has a 40% chance or better to steal then he should always do so provided he has 1 baby in the hole as a safety plan in the event of a call on 3rd street.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Bartholow]

Ok look, I've made a career off 2+2 books, but just because it says you should usually have another low card to steal in SOP doesn't mean the raise wasn't fine here vs. only high cards to act.

[betgo]

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Ok look, I've made a career off 2+2 books, but just because it says you should usually have another low card to steal in SOP doesn't mean the raise wasn't fine here vs. only high cards to act.

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I don't care what Sklansky says. I am raising a set of aces into two face cards any day. The play is EV+ if you are careful if called, and I think it is good for table image.