I play Bad, Please Help Me Sleep at night

[Scary_Tiger]

[ QUOTE ]
fold pf, call turn and river, as played fold river. flop c/r is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

[HOWMANY]

Wanting to donk flop here is so results oriented. We want to build a gigantic pot with our hand, check/raising is the best way to do it.

[The Funky Llama]

if i dont think button is the type who would bet AJ/AK on the flop, I bet it. 4way pots are the ones where guys start checking those sorts of hands, especially on a board like this. You really dont want 0 bets going in on the flop. If the guy is real agro i check.

Call turn, u could easily be behind and there isn't much value in protecting against button.

[milesdyson]

i dont think its results oriented. if it were 3-way i'd agree totally with you, but it's 4-way and that drastically changes the hand.

button probably checks behind AK AJ AT KJ KTs 55 66 77 here and bets with AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 88 AQ KQ. i didnt count but it seems that the flop is getting checked around at least ~40% of the time.

edit: i see llama said similar things above.

[Victor]

well, if i am button the only hands im betting that you beat are a8, a9, 9ts, k9s, tt, jj and flush draws, say ats, ajs, aks, kjs, kts.

i think its very close as ak, aj, at, kj, kt, 55,66,77 are getting checked.

someone needs to do math i think.

[mikeysong]

[ QUOTE ]
if i dont think button is the type who would bet AJ/AK on the flop, I bet it. 4way pots are the ones where guys start checking those sorts of hands, especially on a board like this. You really dont want 0 bets going in on the flop. If the guy is real agro i check.


[/ QUOTE ]

I never really thought about it like that. I assume once a tag 3bets me, he'll most likely cbet the flop. grrr.

[gehrig]

[ QUOTE ]
Call turn, u could easily be behind and there isn't much value in protecting against button.

[/ QUOTE ]
i think heros hand is too strong. the donker can have any pair and the guy in the middle is drawing slim. u give button a chance to make a really bad call with like AT or maybe a worse pair, or he can have clubs

[gehrig]

oh oops, theres no guy in the middle

[milesdyson]

- sb coolcalls a 3bet preflop
- bb coldcalls 2 preflop and is horrible postflop
- button checks behind flop ~40% (i dont want to count!)
- we have top pair plus flush draw

seems that donking is best. sb and bb are bad enough and their preflop hand ranges hit this flop enough that it is really unlikely we are going to get HU with a better hand from the button. but even if that does happen, there is the chance we get HU with the button when he has A9s TT or JJ.

i like calling the turn too

[gehrig]

milesdyson u cant say he chks 40% even if those hands are 40% of his range bc those hands will get bet some % of the time

any time villain was gonna bet the flop, donking it is a big mistake. if he has a big hand u dont want to give him a chance to get it HU. if hes drawing slim u lose tons of value when he either isolates u or just calls