15/30 hand...line check

[rafiki]

"I'll start by saying that I think his UTG raise is way too optimistic"

ya that's what I was driving at. In the games I play, you're not going to be lucky enough to isolate anything. It'll be a big pile of hell out of position.

[brick]

it's clear he has created this example where 3 people have posted in LP in order to help a new player learn how the combination of dead money to the pot can change & a loose opponent with wide range can the way a hand should be played.

It's an interesting example but can easily be taken too far and this example is -EV against most line ups.

Now if the whole table is full of rocks then raising UTG is probably OK.

[that_pope]

This would be a very strange 6-max game, with three people posting, and you are the only one not posting any sort of blind in the hand...

If it isn't a 6 max, it is even worse. Why are you getting yourself in trouble with a very weak hand with 3 people who have position on you and only have to call one bet?

Is this like the ultra level?

Edit: I clearly posted my response before I saw Kit 'coming out of the closet" and don't want to edit my original resposne.

[Hyperrrprank]

This "perfect storm" example seems like it is more useful in teaching a general lesson than it is in determining how to play specific hands. While this situation (lots of dead money, a table capable of folding to aggression, and a marginal hand that may still play well postflop) is going to come up rarely, circumstances where a misapplication of this "lesson" will get you in trouble happen every single session. Maybe people with more experience than me may make this kind of play more frequently, and my hat is off to them.

[threeonefour]

this hand is illustrative in the same way a Sklansky et al [0,1] real number hand is.

the only difference is that this example doesn't actually do a good job of being illustrative, the key decision is in the mind of the author himself too close to call. much better if he was dealt 97s or something that might seem bad at first glance but is demonstrably correct. the author did not demonstrate it to be correct, in fact i am almost certain it is not if you have realistic expectations of the posters (i mean there is very little chance a weak-tight rock posts a couple off the button in a 6max game).

[KitCloudkicker]

Hmm...I think I better clarify something.

This hand was played at a 9 handed table...NOT 6 max.

[threeonefour]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm...I think I better clarify something.

This hand was played at a 9 handed table...NOT 6 max.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think my points (and everyone else's who made that mistake) still stand regardless.

[Bad Lobster]

[ QUOTE ]
I"But if he gets to showdown the hand and the other players think he's a "horrible" "fish," it's got to be a plus-EV play in the long run....

"UTG should've folded to the preflop reraise." Anyone who would fold to the preflop reraise needs immediate lessons in Limit Hold 'Em. You just don't fold getting 11.5-1 preflop when you can close the action, with any hand you've voluntarily put money in with. If you fold here, your raises will get zero respect the rest of the session."



[/ QUOTE ]

These two pieces of advice contradict each other. On one hand he likes an image as a horrible fish, and on the other he wants people to respect his raises.

Generally, when a person's stated reasons for doing something include two arguments that cancel each other out, I figure their real reason for doing it is wishful optimism.

[KitCloudkicker]

is his flop call justified here?

[SNOWBALL]

I know you're taking a shot because of the extra blind money, but your opponents either know what you're doing, and are gonna play back at you, or will simply loosen up for the same reason you are. I fold preflop. I also fold on the flop. Turn and river are fine.