is it legal to wager money on games of skill online? - Page 2

Mr.K · #11 09-30-2006, 11:03 PM

Guys, this is an interesting discussion, but it is headed off in a grossly unrealistic direction. The letter of the law is clear -- poker is a covered activity (you won't find the word "poker" in there, just like you won't find "roulette," but both are covered by Sec. 5362(1)(A) et seq.

So trying to "convince the government" to "carve poker out" as a "game of skill" is not something that can or will happen. Sorry.

checkmate36 · #12 09-30-2006, 11:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Guys, this is an interesting discussion, but it is headed off in a grossly unrealistic direction. The letter of the law is clear -- poker is a covered activity (you won't find the word "poker" in there, just like you won't find "roulette," but both are covered by Sec. 5362(1)(A) et seq.

So trying to "convince the government" to "carve poker out" as a "game of skill" is not something that can or will happen. Sorry.

[/ QUOTE ]

So does chess fall into the group of covered activities?

I see no difference between a chess tourney or a MTT. Both are games of skill, both pay the top player the largest prize. The USCF holds tournaments in high schools, how about a poker MTT after the chess is over with. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Mr.K · #13 09-30-2006, 11:27 PM

Have you read the text of the bill? The section I cited targets games "subject to chance." Since chess is not subject to chance, and poker is, the two cannot be compared.

OrianasDaad · #14 09-30-2006, 11:31 PM

Chess is a game of, in theory, complete information. Luck is not part of any sort of winning strategy.

Here's an example: You put Kasparov, Kramnik, Topalov, and (just for kicks) Gelfand into a 5000+ open swiss. Unless there are other world-class players present, there is a very large likelyhood that these four will take spots in the top 10, if not the top 4 places themselves. If they didn't, it would likely be an upset.

Now, take the top four MTT poker pros and put them into a 5000+ field. They have to get "lucky" to make it to the final table.

As far as whether or not it's illegal now? I guess it was technically illegal before, so on that front there doesn't appear to be any difference.

checkmate36 · #15 09-30-2006, 11:36 PM

Mr. K-

I didn't read the bill. Im just another online fish in the poker world. I did read your post on the bill and want to thank you for taking the time. I didn't mean to sound as if I was questioning your insights.

I know poker is a game of chance but I also see it as a game of investing. If I have a hand that is an 85% favorite to win at the showdown, Im going to try to get as much money involved as I can. When the 15% turns up Im glad I use proper bankroll management.

Thanks again for providing your insights so clowns like me have a better idea of whats going on. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Little_Luck · #16 10-01-2006, 12:45 AM

I used to play competitive chess. Sometimes, even though your opponent was up several points end-game, there was a "Chance" he would make a move that would allow you to take the lead, even though all conventional wisdom said he should win (I would include "she", but I've never lost to a woman at chess).

Everything in life has chance and odds attached to it.

LetsGetItOn · #17 10-01-2006, 01:24 AM

Chess isn't a great example but what about Gin Rummy, sure skill prevails in that much more than luck (from what I know) but if one average player got absolutely perfect cards that gave him a knock for 100 points first round that's a big luck element and from my understanding gin rummy is completely legal to play for money online.

Copernicus · #18 10-01-2006, 01:55 AM

i believe this thread is way off base. no matter what they claim, no raked/fee/seat rental game online is legal according to the Feds.

there are arguments for any game being legal if you dont charge, but have revenue from ancillary businesses...eg click revenues, logo wear etc. some attorneys will tell you that even if no rake they arent legal.

AlexM · #19 10-01-2006, 02:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Have you read the text of the bill? The section I cited targets games "subject to chance." Since chess is not subject to chance, and poker is, the two cannot be compared.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it is. A rank novice can beat a grandmaster by making purely random moves. It's like a one in a trillion chance or worse, but it's definitely there.

ShakeZula06 · #20 10-01-2006, 02:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Chess is a game of, in theory, complete information. Luck is not part of any sort of winning strategy.

Here's an example: You put Kasparov, Kramnik, Topalov, and (just for kicks) Gelfand into a 5000+ open swiss. Unless there are other world-class players present, there is a very large likelyhood that these four will take spots in the top 10, if not the top 4 places themselves. If they didn't, it would likely be an upset.

Now, take the top four MTT poker pros and put them into a 5000+ field. They have to get "lucky" to make it to the final table.

As far as whether or not it's illegal now? I guess it was technically illegal before, so on that front there doesn't appear to be any difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Note the bolded part. That definitively makes it a game of chance.