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#11
09-15-2006, 02:49 PM
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Re: Article on Mets MVP Chances
Beltran is easily one of the best defenders in the NL at a very important position. Howard is one of the worst at a unimportant position. These are facts. I don't understand how you could deny this and if you think defense shouldn't matter in MVP voting you are retarded.
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#12
09-15-2006, 03:04 PM
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Re: Article on Mets MVP Chances
highlife,
"Also, they have a different award for fielding, its called the Golden Glove. " This sucks man. They also have an award for hitters: the Hank Aaron Award. MVP is for the whole game. Arguments for offense > defense are fine (and correct), but if poor defense is costing your team wins, it's got to count against a guy.
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#13
09-15-2006, 03:07 PM
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Re: Article on Mets MVP Chances
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Facts? Ryan Howard - Poorly played 1B with no speed. Carlos Beltran - Exceptionally played CF with great speed. [/ QUOTE ] Hmmm, those sound like opinions to me. You need re-evaluate your definition of facts. Since when is 17 steals considered "great speed"? That prob puts him around 25th in the NL. Yes Howard is at the bottom of fielding 1B, however 1B is a "hitting" position now and always has been. Also, they have a different award for fielding, its called the Golden Glove. [/ QUOTE ] You can't be one of the best CF's in the game without "great speed". And the MVP award should != most homers/rbi.
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#14
09-15-2006, 03:20 PM
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Re: Article on Mets MVP Chances
[ QUOTE ]
You can't be one of the best CF's in the game without "great speed". And the MVP award should != most homers/rbi. [/ QUOTE ] Howard has Beltran beat in all offensive categories except SBs. A little more than just HR and RBI. Fielding has never meant anything in the MVP race. Please see the last 8 NL MVP winners.
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#15
09-15-2006, 03:22 PM
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Re: Article on Mets MVP Chances
[ QUOTE ]
highlife, "Also, they have a different award for fielding, its called the Golden Glove. " This sucks man. They also have an award for hitters: the Hank Aaron Award. MVP is for the whole game. Arguments for offense > defense are fine (and correct), but if poor defense is costing your team wins, it's got to count against a guy. [/ QUOTE ] The Hank Aaron award? Are you joking? Even most decent baseball fans don't even know that exists or care who wins. Didn't they start that less than 10 years ago?
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#16
09-15-2006, 03:30 PM
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Re: Article on Mets MVP Chances
Highlife,
Since when does Ryan Howard play for the Mets?
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#18
09-15-2006, 03:32 PM
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Re: Article on Mets MVP Chances
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] highlife, "Also, they have a different award for fielding, its called the Golden Glove. " This sucks man. They also have an award for hitters: the Hank Aaron Award. MVP is for the whole game. Arguments for offense > defense are fine (and correct), but if poor defense is costing your team wins, it's got to count against a guy. [/ QUOTE ] The Hank Aaron award? Are you joking? Even most decent baseball fans don't even know that exists or care who wins. Didn't they start that less than 10 years ago? [/ QUOTE ] That's not my point, which you're missing or avoiding. Your comment about the Gold Glove Award implies that defense is meaningless in MVP considerations. It's simply not the case. That being said, Howard's offensive edge is too big for Beltran's CF work to make up for. It's likely closer than you suspect, though.
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#19
09-15-2006, 03:51 PM
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Re: Article on Mets MVP Chances
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] highlife, "Also, they have a different award for fielding, its called the Golden Glove. " This sucks man. They also have an award for hitters: the Hank Aaron Award. MVP is for the whole game. Arguments for offense > defense are fine (and correct), but if poor defense is costing your team wins, it's got to count against a guy. [/ QUOTE ] The Hank Aaron award? Are you joking? Even most decent baseball fans don't even know that exists or care who wins. Didn't they start that less than 10 years ago? [/ QUOTE ] That's not my point, which you're missing or avoiding. Your comment about the Gold Glove Award implies that defense is meaningless in MVP considerations. It's simply not the case. That being said, Howard's offensive edge is too big for Beltran's CF work to make up for. It's likely closer than you suspect, though. [/ QUOTE ] Recent history: Bonds (2000s) Juan Gonzales Frank Thomas Sosa Mo Vaughn Giambi
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#20
09-15-2006, 04:24 PM
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Re: Article on Mets MVP Chances
That means nothing. First, Bonds was ridiculously better than anyone else in the entire Major League for every year from 2001 to 2004. He put up .500 OBP+ for each of those years. Frank Thomas was much better on offense than his competitors in 1994, making up for his lack of glove, though Griffey deserved it in 1993.
Plus, who wins MVP isn't who should win MVP. Juan Gonzalez was a joke. McGwire deserved it over Sosa in 1998. Giambi was joke too, A-Rod, Delgado, and Garciaparra were better in 2000. I'll give you another example. A-Rod last year. He won the MVP over Ortiz mostly because he played 3B, and Ortiz played DH. Offense is clearly far more important than defense when evaluating the worth of a player, but between two similar candidates, the one who plays better defense is more valuable.
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