OVERBETTING DRAWS PROFITABLE?

[Panthro]

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kil,

1 and 2 are OK

I really dont like 3 tho

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btw. shove TPTK as well for balance

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Word. If you're only doing this w/ draws it becomes very transparent.

[Hattifnatt]

hand 3 is very bad. not a big fun of the other two either, prefer psbs in these spots.

[Messiahkid]

Hand 1 and 2 are Ok, hand 3 is meh.

[thedustbustr]

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Word. If you're only doing this w/ draws it becomes very transparent.

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honestly, no, it doesn't.

they either read it for a draw or they read it for the nuts. whether or not it is a draw or the nuts is not dependent on your image - its dependant on your opponent's interpretation.

unless of course you're shoving vs 2p2ers that you have hundreds of hands against, in which case, yes, duh, you need to balance. but in default situations - no wai.

[delta k]

3 is not good but the first two are. overbets really [censored] w/ people

[Isura]

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Word. If you're only doing this w/ draws it becomes very transparent.

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honestly, no, it doesn't.

they either read it for a draw or they read it for the nuts. whether or not it is a draw or the nuts is not dependent on your image - its dependant on your opponent's interpretation.

unless of course you're shoving vs 2p2ers that you have hundreds of hands against, in which case, yes, duh, you need to balance. but in default situations - no wai.

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I 100% agree.

[gimmetheloot]

You guys really think this is the optimal way to play these hands?

[terp]

hand 2>hand 1> hand 3

hand 2
you're rarely crushed and you'll get called here a ton of the time by hands you're beating. plus, when they're calling a bet this many times the pot size, it's better to get called with a good equity advantage than to take down a small pot.

hand 1
the only hand you might fold that you're not ahead of anyway is QQ, and there are only three queens left anyway. ok, add AJ too, if he ever has that here.

i think hand 3 is pretty bad. i'm at home with my parents so i can't pull up my database but i have numerous hands where i raise, say A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]X[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], flop A Y[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Z[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and overbet push over their lead (on the flop). i get called by ANY other ace and often naked flush draws. if he has a draw here usually and will stack off on the turn, cool, but he usually has A10 or worse (which he won't fold) or a hand you're beating anyway (which he may 5% of the time decide to make a heroic call with, putting you on a draw). it's pretty meh.

[DJ Sensei]

This is a move that will work a lot better if you do it a whole lot, or very rarely. Doing it a whole lot is obviously a crappy idea, because you'd have to balance it with a range of hands, and meh you may as well just go play donkaments if you want to shove so much.

Doing it very rarely is alright, on a few conditions:
A) its unlikely that your opponent has the nuts or near nuts
B) your hand has good equity against his calling range
C) It'll confuse him into making a bad decision, whether its calling or folding.
D) the overshove shouldnt be TOO huge, because then your equity isn't overlaid enough by whats already in the pot.

So, by these conditions, the second hand is fine, the third one isnt so much because its such a big overbet, and the first one not so much because he could well have the nuts or near nuts.

[delta k]

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This is a move that will work a lot better if you do it a whole lot, or very rarely. Doing it a whole lot is obviously a crappy idea, because you'd have to balance it with a range of hands, and meh you may as well just go play donkaments if you want to shove so much.

Doing it very rarely is alright, on a few conditions:
A) its unlikely that your opponent has the nuts or near nuts
B) your hand has good equity against his calling range
C) It'll confuse him into making a bad decision, whether its calling or folding.
D) the overshove shouldnt be TOO huge, because then your equity isn't overlaid enough by whats already in the pot.

So, by these conditions, the second hand is fine, the third one isnt so much because its such a big overbet, and the first one not so much because he could well have the nuts or near nuts.

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by your conditions i dont think any of them look too good, other than the first one. betting $200 into a $50 pot in hand 2 seems extreme (although now that i'm typing i can't see how much villain has behind, maybe not that much)