I folded AK Unsuited Pre-Flop

[McGrain]

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If I was to play the hand I would would reraise all in.

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This is how I see it too.

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would you lay down QQ in that spot? There is not much difference between them if you are pushing

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I would push with QQ. The difference is that I dominate every hand except the big two and have a miracle card even if those two hands appear.

I'm an underdog against every hand that could call an all in push in that situation with AK and done if he has aces - and i'm in the chip lead at that time.

I think there is a pretty big difference between AK and QQ here.

[PantsOnFire]

Here are the things I would consider:

1. Am I here to win this or cash nicely?

2. Rivoli's raise in a 5 handed game from CO has a wide range.

3. Escobanos re-raise has a narrower range but it is affected greatly by two things: What he thinks of Rivoli's range and the fact that the chip leader still has to act.

4. Rivoli's original raise is a standard raise but Escobanos re-raise is quite large.

5. What are the stacks of the two other players. Worst case here we will go to around 24K with a loss to Escobanos.

6. What do these guys think of me? Do I have credibility?

In the end, whether you are playing for first or not, I feel this adds up to an all-in re-raise. There's 27K in the pot but both of these players will be looking at the two lower stacks and deciding if they want to go out right now. I think your fold equity is very high. Nobody would put you on a steal and would fold a wide range of hands. An all-in 4 bet by the chip leader will have a lot of weight especially if you are not seen as a LAG or haven't done this type of move yet (i.e. you haven't been bullying).

Folding here is not weak or bad, but shoving is real power poker.

I don't like calling since I presume you are in the blinds and will be out of position against maybe two players. Don't put yourself in tough spots.

[Rek]

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Here are the things I would consider:

1. Am I here to win this or cash nicely?

2. Rivoli's raise in a 5 handed game from CO has a wide range.

3. Escobanos re-raise has a narrower range but it is affected greatly by two things: What he thinks of Rivoli's range and the fact that the chip leader still has to act.

4. Rivoli's original raise is a standard raise but Escobanos re-raise is quite large.

5. What are the stacks of the two other players. Worst case here we will go to around 24K with a loss to Escobanos.

6. What do these guys think of me? Do I have credibility?

In the end, whether you are playing for first or not, I feel this adds up to an all-in re-raise. There's 27K in the pot but both of these players will be looking at the two lower stacks and deciding if they want to go out right now. I think your fold equity is very high. Nobody would put you on a steal and would fold a wide range of hands. An all-in 4 bet by the chip leader will have a lot of weight especially if you are not seen as a LAG or haven't done this type of move yet (i.e. you haven't been bullying).

Folding here is not weak or bad, but shoving is real power poker.

I don't like calling since I presume you are in the blinds and will be out of position against maybe two players. Don't put yourself in tough spots.

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I said earlier I think the OP's fold was ok. Also, I agree with all you said here. And thats why I love this game - his fold was ok and your play would be ok.

By the way, where did you finally finish in the tourney

[SellingtheDrama]

Personally I'd move all in - a typical tournament pays much more for the top spot than any other, and 2nd is usually far above 3rd.

You are the chip leader by a good margin - if you double up the 2nd place stack, you are still in 2nd place!

Also, a very important concept is his (Escobanos) potential fear of going broke. You can break him and he finishes 5th - he has to consider this once you move in. Personally, I like to be very aggressive against guys like this, especially ones who play tight. They can fold almost anything if you scare them enough.

[McGrain]

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By the way, where did you finally finish in the tourney

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I did actually win it ( [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) but went into the heads up with a three to one chip defecit.

It was Rivoli I ended up head to head with, and he was indeed very tricky (though we know he would have folded to an all in raise in the described hand because he folded to the original re-raise).

It is my second win at this level.

[McGrain]

This is a nice post so i'll pick you up on one or two things and maybe you'll come back if you see anything interesting.


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1. Am I here to win this or cash nicely?

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I play to win, always, without really expecting to. What this means in real terms is that i'll play aggressively on the bubble and raise plenty when the blinds get bigger.


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4. Rivoli's original raise is a standard raise

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It is indeed, but this guys standard is almost meaningless - though of course I have the advantage of having played around 40 hands with this guy just last night. It could mean literally anything, he's the most consistatly tricky player i've ever played with.

As i've already said, I considered it possible that I would have two callers to any all-in re-raise and I really didn't like to call.



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In the end, whether you are playing for first or not, I feel this adds up to an all-in re-raise.

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It was either that or the fold. Would you reconsider in the light of the fact that the original raiser was a difficult character?

I like your point about bullying, I had in fact been pretty card dead for the last dozen or so hands - for sure the re-raise would have been taken very seriously.

You are also correct about the blinds, I was in the small blind.

[SellingtheDrama]

Given that the original raiser is tricky, I would be more inclined to move all in on him. What a 'tricky' player wants is to outplay you postflop - by moving all in, you take away his ability to make a move on you, and instead force him to make one decision for his tournament life.

This is the core of the strategy known as 'Kill Phil' (there's a book by that name) - and is a perfect example of how to implement it.

[Dalek]

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As stated before, it depends if you are there to win or make a nice cash. Personally I would fold as I would be hoping the initial raiser would be all in against the other player and got knocked out, moving me up the pay ladder. If I was to play the hand I would would reraise all in. Just out of interest would you lay down QQ in that spot? There is not much difference between them if you are pushing

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Actually the difference is huge. Assuming the guy is solid and is re-raising with pairs 77+/AJ+ then AK is dominating AJ/AQ and coin flipping with pairs. QQ is crushing pairs and AQ/AJ and is only coin flipping with AK. Both are obviously crushed by AA/KK.

I would re-raise with QQ but fold AK in this situation.

[PantsOnFire]

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It was either that or the fold. Would you reconsider in the light of the fact that the original raiser was a difficult character?

I like your point about bullying, I had in fact been pretty card dead for the last dozen or so hands - for sure the re-raise would have been taken very seriously.

You are also correct about the blinds, I was in the small blind.

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As poster below pointed out, when you are all-in, you have no more decisions. So nobody can be tricky with you.

Forget about Esconbanos for a minute. Let's look at this again. Rivoli has bet 4800 with about 37500 behind now. One of the luxuries of having more than twice as many chips as Rivoli is that you can put his tournament life on the line while you yourself will still be fairly comfortable.

If you put him all-in he will be facing a pot of around 13000 and 37500 to call giving him about 1.35:1 calling odds. Unless he has a premium hand, he is going to have a VERY tough decision. This is your goal, to give your opponents tough decisions. This gives the opportunity to make mistakes. In your case, him calling with AQ or AJ would be a hugh mistake and him folding QQ-22 would be a smaller mistake.

You yourself want to avoid situations where you have to make a tough decision. Calling in that hand would have set you up for a potential tough decision. Sure if an A or K hit you can shove but if it doesn't hit, you could make a huge error on the flop.

So go back to your flop decision with Esconbanos and Rivoli. Calling might be good play but you will be out of position and likely facing a very tough postflop decision. Further, calling doesn't guarantee that Rivoli will not now move all-in. And whether Esconbanos either calls or moves in himself, given your cards and the money in the pot, you have to call.

Folding might not be a bad decision. However, if they have hands like AQ or AJ, you could have lost a lot of value. If they have QQ-22, it might be okay unless an A or K hits the flop, then you lost some value again. Folding is pretty safe, and likely would only be a small mistake at best.

Now back to all-in. It is only a big mistake if one of them has AA or KK. The best scenario is if Rivoli has KK and the worst scenario is if Esconbanos has AA. Even if you lose to Rivoli, you could still beat Esconbanos and win enough to cover your loss to Rivoli.

However, your fold equity here seems really good, especially if you have been quite lately.

Nobody can say for certain if your fold was good here or not. However, when you are in these situations, I feel there are a lot of things you should consider. The more factors you consider and the more accurately you assess, the better your decisions will be.

Always keep in mind the "mistake factor". You can handle making some small mistakes but a huge mistake can be crippling. Same for your opponents. So try to avoid situations where you could be making a huge mistake and try to put your opponent in those positions. You want an example? You have AQoff in the SB. UTG raises, MP calls, button calls, just fold. Avoid the tough decisions. Some hands look so good. But factor in the situation and those hands shrink.

[rodders133]

I stand corrected on my previous post. What I meant was with this action, I would have thought it highly likely that there was an Ace and a King out there somewhere meaning that you were only a coinflip if you held QQ