Big Pot w/ Overs: Odds to Peel?

[NIX]

[ QUOTE ]
clear fold and if i may add?
i just dunno why u raise preflop,i wouldnt?
its a great hand to limp in early position but a bad one to raise with?
u want caller with weaker hand behind u because u have a great hand to play multiway and if u dont raise ,great chance u will dominate limper behind u.
i think raising this hand early position will only be called or reraise by a better hand and since u have a lot of players behind u,there s a big chance someone has a better hand.
of course u raise this hand in late position if no 1 raise in front of u .
i think the only moment this is a good hand to raise is when the table is loose and passif,wich i doubt it is at 1/2 full tilt....

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the PF raise is good. If the table is tight and we get the blinds, fine. If not, KQs plays well HU so getting a cold caller isn't bad. Even if they have the best hand, like 77 or AJs, we may still be able to take the pot down with a c-bet which is also good. KQs is a raise, even UTG, by default for me.

[Montrealcorp]

funny,i think exactly the opposite of u,i would raise when table is loose because i know it plays multiway as well as HU and i know on loose table ,players will call often with hands that are far worst then mine.

in thight table,even if ure only been call u dont know where u stand .
since on tight table ,lots of player would only call with AQ for example.

what im saying is on thight table,usually they know what they are doing(especially when the limits start at 1/2 and up),and ure raise in early position indicate u have a stronger hand then what it requires and ure OOP.
unless ure ready to fire 2 bullet(flop& turn)then i guess its fine,but i find it better to only limp(and even fold) on tight table(at 1/2 and up limit of course,below i would raise since usually it s never as tight as it should anyway)...

im just guessing im just tighter then u?
i suppose u open raise early with 77-TT and AJ as well??

ps: yup i might be wrong there of course....im not use anywya to play on tight table i try chooose looser

[Aaron W.]

Re: Preflop chatter

Hero is 3rd to act at an 8-handed table. You should basically *NEVER* be limping in.

[NIX]

[ QUOTE ]
funny,i think exactly the opposite of u,i would raise when table is loose because i know it plays multiway as well as HU and i know on loose table ,players will call often with hands that are far worst then mine.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a reason to raise KQs at a loose table and you're correct. KQs is a nice hand in that is plays well multiway if you raise and get called a bunch of people and it plays well HU if you only get one caller.

[ QUOTE ]
in thight table,even if ure only been call u dont know where u stand .
since on tight table ,lots of player would only call with AQ for example.

what im saying is on thight table,usually they know what they are doing(especially when the limits start at 1/2 and up),and ure raise in early position indicate u have a stronger hand then what it requires and ure OOP.
unless ure ready to fire 2 bullet(flop& turn)then i guess its fine,but i find it better to only limp(and even fold) on tight table(at 1/2 and up limit of course,below i would raise since usually it s never as tight as it should anyway)...

[/ QUOTE ]
It's true that if you raise in MP, and only get one cold caller in position, you don't exactly know where you're at, but it's not a reason to get worried yet. If you have stats/reads on the player, you can start to put him on a range. The nice thing about playing against players who know what they're doing is that they can fold. Using your AQ example, if the cold caller misses the flop, and we c-bet, now he has to make a decision. Do we have AK or a big pocket pair that has him in trouble and should he continue? Or do we have an AJ hand and he is ahead? He is in the dark and is going to make a mistake in this position a lot (either folding the best hand or calling with 3 outs). On the other side, if an ace flops and we c-bet and he calls, then we picked up a lot of information right there. An ace is a big part of our range and he knows this and didn't fold. We are going to be in trouble a lot of the time and can consider folding later in the hand.

Aaron said you shouldn't be limping in this spot and is correct. If you're 3 off the button and limp, a lot of the time someone is going to raise behind you and some of the time, they will have a hand that is worse than yours (KT/QJs/etc.). Pretty much, if you don't hit the flop, you will be folding a bunch and this is a much less profitable situation than when you raise and take initiative.

[Christian_Peters]

flush it. not close.