Huge odds V.S. reverse domination

[JJNJustin]

You shouldnt raise pre-flop with AQo with many limpers because this is exactly the kind of situation you end up in a huge pot with no hand and no clue.

You almost have to raise the bettor on the flop to see where everyone's at, and you yet someone could have you slaughtered, yet the pot is so big now.

Keep pots small in loose games with offsuit highcards. You'll be glad you did.

-J

[Grease]

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I think this is weak-tightish advice, mainly because you are ignoring the mistakes that players are making when they enter the hand to begin with. They are limping with all sorts of hands which you have beaten, and by raising, you are simply pushing the edge you have preflop. You give up some postflop expectation by doing so, but the edge you can PF is larger than that you lose postflop. SSH explains this concept much better than I ever could, but I think that it definitley holds here.

[JJNJustin]

AQo is not hardly beating any hands in a 6-7 way pot.
HFAP in the loose games section explains this strategy and it is where I learned it from and find it to be incredibly helpful in my game when I play with many loose players. "Weak tight" has nothing to do with why I dont raise with AQo in multiway pots.

-J

[Befolder]

AQo is not a big pot hand fellas. I'm a huge aggressor, but I've started to realize that in these types of situations, it's far better to sacrifice that small preflop edge, in order to take advantage of a much larger one on the flop when we hit.

As has been said, by waiting we might be in a situation to make our opponents make mistakes by calling, by bloating the pot (with a hand that does not play multiway, which is perhaps the best point to make here), we don't get that opportunity.

I believe we gain far more by waiting one street and then charging the max our hand warrants.

Of course, if AQs, raise pf all day in this game.

[JJH3984]

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AQo is not a big pot hand fellas. I'm a huge aggressor, but I've started to realize that in these types of situations, it's far better to sacrifice that small preflop edge, in order to take advantage of a much larger one on the flop when we hit.

As has been said, by waiting we might be in a situation to make our opponents make mistakes by calling, by bloating the pot (with a hand that does not play multiway, which is perhaps the best point to make here), we don't get that opportunity.

I believe we gain far more by waiting one street and then charging the max our hand warrants.

Of course, if AQs, raise pf all day in this game.

[/ QUOTE ]

boooooooo. AQo has a large equity advantage against 5-7 (or whatever) random hands. Also you need less of an equity advantage percentagewise to raise in multiway pots because any advantage is multiplied by a greater factor. Get out of this "big pot hand" mentality. If you have an advantage, it is mostly worth pushing.

[Grease]

I've been battling with pokerstove, but AQo against 5 random hands (I've been trying to put in ranges to get a better approximation, but to no avail, yet) has a 10% equity edge (25% vs. 15% for the randoms). That is huge! There is no way I would not push it preflop.

I would like to see how AQo does against hands that these loose opponents are really playing PF, because it's not exactly random, but we can't give them that much credit, either.

[Befolder]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been battling with pokerstove, but AQo against 5 random hands (I've been trying to put in ranges to get a better approximation, but to no avail, yet) has a 10% equity edge (25% vs. 15% for the randoms). That is huge! There is no way I would not push it preflop.

I would like to see how AQo does against hands that these loose opponents are really playing PF, because it's not exactly random, but we can't give them that much credit, either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Put in a flop of QT3 and then see how big your edge is. It should be much larger. My version is somehow expired so I can't do it.

Sometimes it's better to pass up on a small +EV opportunity if you can take advantage of a larger one in the near future. If you've read SSHE or HPFAP, that should be recognizable.

Your advantage is much larger after the flop. Again, this is a special case. It's a rare time I'm not raising w/ this hand myself.

[JJH3984]

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[ QUOTE ]
I've been battling with pokerstove, but AQo against 5 random hands (I've been trying to put in ranges to get a better approximation, but to no avail, yet) has a 10% equity edge (25% vs. 15% for the randoms). That is huge! There is no way I would not push it preflop.

I would like to see how AQo does against hands that these loose opponents are really playing PF, because it's not exactly random, but we can't give them that much credit, either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Put in a flop of QT3 and then see how big your edge is. It should be much larger. My version is somehow expired so I can't do it.

Sometimes it's better to pass up on a small +EV opportunity if you can take advantage of a larger one in the near future. If you've read SSHE or HPFAP, that should be recognizable.

Your advantage is much larger after the flop. Again, this is a special case. It's a rare time I'm not raising w/ this hand myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

your equity also goes up with AA when the flop come A66, but I doubt you would limp along with it.

[Befolder]

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I've been battling with pokerstove, but AQo against 5 random hands (I've been trying to put in ranges to get a better approximation, but to no avail, yet) has a 10% equity edge (25% vs. 15% for the randoms). That is huge! There is no way I would not push it preflop.

I would like to see how AQo does against hands that these loose opponents are really playing PF, because it's not exactly random, but we can't give them that much credit, either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Put in a flop of QT3 and then see how big your edge is. It should be much larger. My version is somehow expired so I can't do it.

Sometimes it's better to pass up on a small +EV opportunity if you can take advantage of a larger one in the near future. If you've read SSHE or HPFAP, that should be recognizable.

Your advantage is much larger after the flop. Again, this is a special case. It's a rare time I'm not raising w/ this hand myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

your equity also goes up with AA when the flop come A66, but I doubt you would limp along with it.

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That's not really a good example of the same kind of hand. AA, just like any PP hand doesn't mind multiway action because of the set value. The implied odds of PP hands are far better than AQo.

[JJH3984]

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I've been battling with pokerstove, but AQo against 5 random hands (I've been trying to put in ranges to get a better approximation, but to no avail, yet) has a 10% equity edge (25% vs. 15% for the randoms). That is huge! There is no way I would not push it preflop.

I would like to see how AQo does against hands that these loose opponents are really playing PF, because it's not exactly random, but we can't give them that much credit, either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Put in a flop of QT3 and then see how big your edge is. It should be much larger. My version is somehow expired so I can't do it.

Sometimes it's better to pass up on a small +EV opportunity if you can take advantage of a larger one in the near future. If you've read SSHE or HPFAP, that should be recognizable.

Your advantage is much larger after the flop. Again, this is a special case. It's a rare time I'm not raising w/ this hand myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

your equity also goes up with AA when the flop come A66, but I doubt you would limp along with it.

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That's not really a good example of the same kind of hand. AA, just like any PP hand doesn't mind multiway action because of the set value. The implied odds of PP hands are far better than AQo.

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is that they both have a large equity advantage preflop. You need to push that advantage. AA doesn't mind multiway action because it has a large equity advantage, not because it can hit a set. Sure sometimes the flop will come T98 monotone and you'll have to check and fold, but sometimes it will come AQx and you'll be happy you raised. Not raising AQo in multiway pots is weak-tight and results oriented.