Did I get owned?

[RR]

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Protect your hand doesnt apply here. The dealer has a job too, thats why they get paid more than people with real jobs. He should be able to notice that only 2 people mucked, and where cards are that he just delt out 2 seconds ago. Floor call was BS here.

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This is exactly the situation you have to protect your hand against.

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No, not at all. Here theres 4 sets of hands, 2 folds, and the dealer had just finished dealing, so he should at least have some memory of who he just dealt to and where. Especially when the two people are BB and SB.

A typical "protect your hand" would be say for example youre CO, and its folded to you and you havent taken your hand yet.

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I am sure your vast experience with these matters can correct the rest of us on this forum.

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Don't be a tool. You don't know what kind of experience he has in the field at all.

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I know from his responce he has almost none. Anyone that thinks there is some period of time where a player is not responsible for protecting his hand is simply not familiar with B&M poker.

[AngusThermopyle]

Half dealer fault. Half player fault.
My only quibble with the ruling is that there had been no 'action' (just two folds) yet, so a re-deal is not that much out of the question, since the dealer clearly made an error.

[RR]

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Half dealer fault. Half player fault.
My only quibble with the ruling is that there had been no 'action' (just two folds) yet, so a re-deal is not that much out of the question, since the dealer clearly made an error.

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Folds are action. The dealer definitely made a mistake, but that is why players need to protect their hands; mistakes happen. The other thing that can happen here since the player wasn't watchign closely is the dealer might not have made a mistake. The small blind that was leaving might have looked and carelessly thrown his cards onto the cards he saw just laying there (the BB cards) or one of the folds might have tossed his cards onto the BB cards. It is bad when the dealer mucks a live hand, but we aren't figuring out an insurance claim; the player could have protected himslef against any potential dealer error by protecting his hand.

[pfapfap]

My guess is that he was mucking the absent SB and goofed. Or, as theorized, had it out for players watching the teevee.

Hey, I agree that this was dealer error, but two actions is a valid deal, so oh well. Heck, maybe one of the mucked hands hit your unprotected hand. To the people suggesting that protecting your hand doesn't apply... sure, you can get all high and mighty about it, but at the end of the day, if you protect your hand at all times you have nothing about which to complain. You can't control others; you can only control you. It boggles me how people like to fight about this. "But that hit-n-run driver was totally in the wrong!" "Yeah, okay, but you're still paralyzed from the neck down." Look both ways before crossing.

[DDH]

Especially in a tournament, when the clock is running. If I'm at your table, I don't want to have to wait while the dealer brings all the cards in, re-shuffles and re-deals, just because you weren't quick enough with your card cover. Sure, it doesn't take that long to do, but we've already wasted time while you called the floor over and had this discussion. So this would be just wasting more time. Protect your cards better and move on.

[bav]

All completely standard. I'm with Randy (as usual).

There would be no need for a rule saying players have to protect their own hand if nobody else ever made a mistake. The whole point of the protect your hand rule is because sometimes dealers grab cards they shouldn't and sometimes players muck cards in directions they shouldn't. The claim this was the dealer's fault is immaterial--doesn't matter who is to blame, your cards are gone and the action is continuing. And one of the most common cases is where someone in early position is distracted and hasn't even looked at his cards only to find them gone when he finally looks down. Two people had time to act and the dealer had time to scoop in their cards and the SB's by the time UTG+2 decided to pay attention--oh well.

Calling for the floor is a bit of a cry-baby response, too--it ain't like you had a ton of money in the pot, and you weren't even a blind...tourney players do NOT like the game being delayed for such silliness. All you can get out of this is keeping the button from advancing for one hand, and it cost you the time to get the floor over. And you say the blinds were small so why make an issue of it? Pick your battles.

[Miklan300]

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All completely standard. I'm with Randy (as usual).

There would be no need for a rule saying players have to protect their own hand if nobody else ever made a mistake. The whole point of the protect your hand rule is because sometimes dealers grab cards they shouldn't and sometimes players muck cards in directions they shouldn't. The claim this was the dealer's fault is immaterial--doesn't matter who is to blame, your cards are gone and the action is continuing. And one of the most common cases is where someone in early position is distracted and hasn't even looked at his cards only to find them gone when he finally looks down. Two people had time to act and the dealer had time to scoop in their cards and the SB's by the time UTG+2 decided to pay attention--oh well.

Calling for the floor is a bit of a cry-baby response, too--it ain't like you had a ton of money in the pot, and you weren't even a blind ...tourney players do NOT like the game being delayed for such silliness. All you can get out of this is keeping the button from advancing for one hand, and it cost you the time to get the floor over. And you say the blinds were small so why make an issue of it? Pick your battles.

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he was BB.

[Miklan300]

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All completely standard. I'm with Randy (as usual).

There would be no need for a rule saying players have to protect their own hand if nobody else ever made a mistake. The whole point of the protect your hand rule is because sometimes dealers grab cards they shouldn't and sometimes players muck cards in directions they shouldn't. The claim this was the dealer's fault is immaterial--doesn't matter who is to blame, your cards are gone and the action is continuing. And one of the most common cases is where someone in early position is distracted and hasn't even looked at his cards only to find them gone when he finally looks down. Two people had time to act and the dealer had time to scoop in their cards and the SB's by the time UTG+2 decided to pay attention--oh well.

Calling for the floor is a bit of a cry-baby response, too--it ain't like you had a ton of money in the pot, and you weren't even a blind... tourney players do NOT like the game being delayed for such silliness. All you can get out of this is keeping the button from advancing for one hand, and it cost you the time to get the floor over. And you say the blinds were small so why make an issue of it? Pick your battles.

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And whats this part supposed to mean? Is OP not a tourney player himself? 90% of people in any live tournament are donk who wouldnt even know whats going on in a situation like this.

[juanez]

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No, not at all. Here theres 4 sets of hands, 2 folds, and the dealer had just finished dealing, so he should at least have some memory of who he just dealt to and where. Especially when the two people are BB and SB.

A typical "protect your hand" would be say for example youre CO, and its folded to you and you havent taken your hand yet.

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From Robert's Rules of Poker:

2. You must protect your own hand at all times .

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[AngusThermopyle]

Excuse me folks.

Chips in front of the SB. Same with the BB. If the dealer dealt properly, the cards were past the chips and near the player.

The dealer had to reach over the blinds and grab the cards.

Not a cards from a player in early position. Both blinds.

Ok to say "protect your hand at all times". Ok to say, "tournament clock running and cannot readeal". But the dealer made one major eF up.

Do you really expect to have to "protect your hand" in the BB the second UTG folds?