STTF SNG->cash thread

[blackize]

I like it then. Flop and turn you're getting ridiculously good odds and if you read him as weak then your A and K are good.

[DevinLake]

Ok, here's my thinking...

I'm not folding KK here! Not against his guy. But does that mean I should c/c or just shove?

Well, I really don't like c/c in this spot. It is unlikely based on the way he has played this hand, that a worse hand than mine will bet for value. It's unlikely he has TP because he called the flop and it'd be pretty rare for him to float that flop wiht Qx. So, the reason I don't want to c/c is because most worst hands check behind, and almost all better hands bet for value.

So, if I c/c I'm going to be pretty much always putting my money in bad. (this all assumes that he doesn't have draws that miss, but with this flop texture I'm not putting him on missed draws that often).

I guess this could be an agrument for c/f, but based on the fact this guy hasn't really folded to this point (that I've noticed), I'm willing to felt an overpair.

edit: so, in conclusion (sry, I'm kinda drunk) I shove.

[wuwei]

xposted from SSNL:

I think I have a lot of room for improvement on my river play. Time to post some hands.

aside: Where can I find folded to c-bet in PT? It seems relevant to this discussion, but I can't seem to find it... Thanks.

Hand 1:

Villain is running 32/8/1 over about 40 hands. He's winning so far, but looks like a pretty bad calling station.

Full Tilt Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (UTG): $499.10
MP: $386
CO: $420
BTN: $650.80
SB: $662.85
BB: $169.50

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $14</font>, 2 folds, BTN calls $14, SB folds, BB calls $10

Flop: ($44) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $36</font>, BTN folds, BB calls $36

Turn: ($116) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($116) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $84</font>, Hero...

Hand 2: Villain is running 44/15/1.4 over 70 hands. No history here

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

Hero (SB): $237.75
BB: $412.45
UTG: $264.15
CO: $326.00
BTN: $236.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 Players)
3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $6.00</font>, BB calls $4.00

Flop: ($12) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $8.00</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $16.00</font>, Hero calls $8.00

Turn: ($44) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, BB checks

River: ($44) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BB bets $26.00</font>, Hero...

[DevinLake]

bengie, it's probably not the way I'd usally play this pot. But, I think I like it.

Usually when I don't c-bet i have a good reason to not c-bet. Like I think it won't work very often, which means I think they usually have a better hand and I.

But, I guess after you check you get some new information here. He's betting very small, which looks weak, which means ur hand is likely good.

Raising will only chase out hands you bet. He's not folding a pair on this flop. Turn's a brick, no point betting now either, he's still not folding anything you beat on this turn.

River, ok you have the best hand. So, what now. Do you bet in fear he checks behind. Well, I think you need to stick to your original read that he's weak. So, he probably still has nothing. So, your only choice is to check and let him bluff on more time then go to town for value with the c/r.

So, I guess I like ur line, athough usually I think when you check a non made hand the standard should be to fold it.

[DevinLake]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1:

Villain is running 32/8/1 over about 40 hands. He's winning so far, but looks like a pretty bad calling station.

Full Tilt Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (UTG): $499.10
MP: $386
CO: $420
BTN: $650.80
SB: $662.85
BB: $169.50

Pre-Flop: J A dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero raises to $14, 2 folds, BTN calls $14, SB folds, BB calls $10

Flop: ($44) Q 8 3 (3 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets $36, BTN folds, BB calls $36

Turn: ($116) 9 (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($116) J (2 Players)
BB bets $84, Hero...

[/ QUOTE ]

When I'm playing bad I call here. When I'm playing good, I fold. He's so passive that it is hard to give him credit for betting a missed diamond draw. If he doesn't have a missed diamond draw, what else was he calling with on the flop that he is now betting?

[DevinLake]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: Villain is running 44/15/1.4 over 70 hands. No history here

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

Hero (SB): $237.75
BB: $412.45
UTG: $264.15
CO: $326.00
BTN: $236.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt 3 3 (5 Players)
3 folds, Hero raises to $6.00, BB calls $4.00

Flop: ($12) 2 A 5 (2 Players)
Hero bets $8.00, BB raises to $16.00, Hero calls $8.00

Turn: ($44) 5 (2 Players)
Hero checks, BB checks

River: ($44) 5 (2 Players)
Hero checks, BB bets $26.00, Hero...

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually just fold the flop.

When you are going to call oop you have to ask your self what you are hoping to see on the turn. You do have outs, and it is a min raise, so I guess the call is reasonable. But, ur hoping to see a 3 or a 4 obv. When they didn't come, I can see how you are going to do anything but fold.

Calling does not seem like an option to me, so unless ur willing to make a big bluff while repping nothing, I just fold.

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Poker]http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PokerStars.php#converter]Poker Stars[/url] Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($131.90)
BB ($277.05)
Hero ($115.75)
MP ($103.45)
CO ($100)
Button ($113.20)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $4, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: ($9.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $7</font>, CO calls $7.

Turn: ($23.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $16</font>, Hero calls $16.

River: ($55.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, CO checks.

villain is 13/11. early on in the session

[/ QUOTE ]

I play it the same, or I c/r all in on turn.

We have 32% equity v. 77,44,AQs-AJs,KhQh,AQo on the turn (pretty narrow range). We're putting in $73 to win $55.

Bleh, I'm too tired to run the math, but if we think he's folding TP to a turn C/R the play looks good. I should also be considering that he may not 3-bet AK preflop, that we can usually factor in some small % for the times he floats the flop (5-10%). No time though, I need sleep.

Against a nit, your line works. Against other guys, I like to c/r.

[microbet]

Devin,

a) No one is responding to your post because we're all intimidated.

b) Are you sure this wasn't on Absolute?, cause a guy that plays every hand and kick ass sounds familiar.

c) I'm pretty sure that's not the correct way to punctuate the previous sentence, but I like it that way.

d) So nice to have a good read on these maniacs. For one guy I played who was like this I would open KK to more like $30 here, even $40.

e) When he turned the flush, did he become aggressive? If so, just get it in, and bet full pot on every street. I find guys like this will call you down if they hit TP on the flop. These bastards often make a lot of money cause people get frustrated and bluff against them too much.

[Jbrochu]

[ QUOTE ]
b) Are you sure this wasn't on Absolute?, cause a guy that plays every hand and kick ass sounds familiar.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[BHokie1]

&lt; 10 hand vs villain

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Poker"]http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PokerStars.php#converter]Poker Stars[/url] Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($23.40)
UTG+1 ($15.85)
MP1 ($18.70)
MP2 ($9.50)
MP3 ($5.10)
CO ($18.95)
Button ($32.05)
Hero ($24.90)
BB ($25)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.25) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $0.25</font>, MP1 calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25.

Turn: ($2.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $2</font>, BB folds, MP1 calls $2, CO folds, Button calls $2.

River: ($8.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Hero?