VH1's "The Pick up Artist"

[Assani Fisher]

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Your 'I don't care' is the most obvious self-esteem defense ploy, that most men and women do.

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[Jay.]

abhorrent of this anywhere?

[Anacardo]

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no. i am just stating that past success has led me to being less active in pursuing purely sex, because i do not consider it as terribly important as i surely would if i were a virgin.

and the 'i dont care' isn't being used in a self-esteem defense. it really is just my terribly apathetic outlook on things at the moment.

one thing i DO care about is finding a more significant relationship within the next 5 years of my life, not [censored] club hoes.

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This is not directed at you, but at those who are critical in general:

I find it very amusing that in a forum devoted to changing yourself and learning skills to intentionally exploit others while actively trying to look as though you are not doing so there is criticism of PUA.

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I play poker, and love sports / competitive games of strategy in general, precisely because it's a venue where I can exercise all the desires I don't approve of - aggression, territoriality, the desire to outwit, outwill, dominate and humble others - in a setting where there are as few actual consequences as possible. Also my live table image is not so hot, since I don't make friends with the fish and praise them for doing awful things. This hurts my earn but I can't stand being That Guy. So it goes with all kinds of things. I hate insincerity. I hate salesmanship. I hate struggles for power in personal relationships. The only part of my life where I want any part of them is the part that's by definition just a game, and doesn't matter.

[JuntMonkey]

This whole business about being "yourself" is silly. "You" change depending on whether you're at work, home alone, on a job interview, in a club, on a first date, on the couch with your wife of 20 years, at the ballpark, playing ball, etc.

"You" is arbitrary. There is lying and there is deceiving, but that's a different story.

[Assani Fisher]

I totally disagree with all of the people who think its "lying" or "deceiving." Its not about acting different than you really are. Its just about the confidence to ACT LIKE YOU REALLY ARE. Take a look at how all of the people acted in the club on the first show. How do you think they act when they are around their close friends? Do you think they're also quiet and scared around their close friends? Of course not! They're probably much more open, make a lot more jokes, and simply come across as a more interesting person. That is WHO THEY REALLY ARE. Who they are not is the person they are acting like when trying to meet girls.

So basically I think its the exact opposite of what many of you are claiming. They are not being themselves in front of girls, and this teaches them to do so.

[BeaucoupFish]

From the sound of it, there really are two ends of the scale of people that consider themselves PUA's.

The ones that use it to develop themselves fundamentally, in many aspects of their life, and the ones that use it as a selfish gimmick, for one purpose only. I would say the ones on this end of the spectrum are the ones some of us have some -ve feelings about.

Is the difference that the former learn to manipulate situations (including themselves and potentially others), whereas the latter ONLY manipulate others?

[traz]

I hate the term "manipulate". It's not about manipulating situations or people...it's about understanding what's really going on behind the scenes and choosing the best way to act

[DCJ311]

Learning the art of approaching and talking to women is one of the best things someone can do. How many guys end up in prison every year for assault/rape simply because they are meat heads who have no clue how to talk to a woman?

Keep in mind that girls basically have guys hitting on them nonstop. Naturally, if something like 80% of the opposite gender is willing to sleep with you, then you must find a way to weed out the flakes.

When you go out to a club and try to talk to a woman, they immediately view you with distrust and apprehension, simply because they 'know' you're trying to get into their pants on some level. Guys who are fun, interesting, socially proofed, and most importantly NOT flaky meet the criteria for nearly all women. One thing some people don't realize about most PUAs is that they don't view women as conquests and actually treat them very well. They are simply very, very good at interacting with women.

People who frown upon PUA and call it misleading have to remember that a few smooth pickup lines and cocky/funny humor only lasts for so long. A girl is not going to sleep with you based on a routine- you use this stuff to separate yourselves from the average guys, and then demonstrate why YOU are worth her time. This is totally natural and makes for a more interesting social environment than what the average guy does.

Girls also are natural expert PUAs since they love to dress up and are always gaming guys, trying to crack them into belittling themselves to get her. Once a guy does this, his chances are shot. Male PUAs do the same thing to girls, but in a funny way, since they are never actually 'hitting' on a girl until she demonstrates visible interest in him first.

As for me, this stuff is a little easier because I am more inclined to come off as an ass and joke around. When go to a club or talk to women in general, I don't change my behavior one bit, since this is weird and also removes me of my best selling points. Go into a club with the attitude that you are going to create a positive time for SOMEONE, and you'll never feel weird or worry about embarrassment.

This show is awesome- I am all for fellow males learning a thing or two about the fairer sex, and it's cool to see a PUA in action. I actually like Neil Strauss the most because he's more of a smart, likeable guy. Mystery is great too, but comes off more as contrived. The other two PUAs in the show are pretty standard IMO.

As for the whole "Buy me a drink" line, it merely subtle innuendo that tells the girl "I know what I'm doing" and immediately neutralizes the playing field. Buying girls drinks is WEIRD and if some girl came up to me at a bar and offered to buy me a drink for no reason I'd think she was a weirdo too. Don't buy girls stuff unless they've earned the right (normally sleeping with you). Trust me it works out best for the both of you.

[gumpzilla]

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Learning the art of approaching and talking to women is one of the best things someone can do. How many guys end up in prison every year for assault/rape simply because they are meat heads who have no clue how to talk to a woman?

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Whoa.

[DCJ311]

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Learning the art of approaching and talking to women is one of the best things someone can do. How many guys end up in prison every year for assault/rape simply because they are meat heads who have no clue how to talk to a woman?

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Whoa.

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It's not possible to do, but I'd bet an inordinate sum of money that there are very few PUAs in prison for domestic abuse/rape. Not trying to derail the thread but I think my point is completely viable. Almost nothing bad can happen from teaching a guy how to deal with women, and it's not something that's taught in schools or by most parents.