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| View Poll Results: Group One: 8 vs 9 | |||
| The Mask |
   
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36 | 25.53% |
| Batman |
  
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105 | 74.47% |
| Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#181
06-25-2007, 11:05 PM
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Re: Ask a Catholic?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This is what I was getting at earlier. It's pretty clear in the commandments that there should be no worship of other gods and no worship of false idols, yet the holy trinity, especially the part with mary, goes directly against this. Any thoughts? (And that's just the tip of the iceberg, as you put it. When you get into the idea of the pope and a whole hierarchy of religious figures that are being worshipped, in a sense, things get even muddier.) [/ QUOTE ] The Pope, saints, Mary, etc. aren't worshipped by Catholics they are venerated. We understand their special place in developing the Church, but they aren't worshipped. There is one God we worship. [/ QUOTE ] Ok, look at the excerpt below: [ QUOTE ] Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus - Cite This Source Main Entry: worship Part of Speech: verb Definition: honor Synonyms: admire, adore, adulate, bow down, canonize, celebrate, chant, deify, dote on, esteem, exalt, extol, glorify, idolize, laud, love, magnify, praise, pray to, respect, revere, reverence, sanctify, sing, venerate Antonyms: dishonor, disrespect, hate Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1) Copyright © 2007 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved. [/ QUOTE ] What we have is the epitome of a semantic debate, and surely you can see why some might find the catholic church even blasphemous? I'm not making this claim. Like I said earlier in the thread, i'm an unbiased atheist. I have admiration for and interest in the philosophy of christ but no emotional attachment to the religious aspect. 
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#182
06-25-2007, 11:13 PM
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Re: Ask a Catholic?
As a former (for bout 17 yrs) Catholic, my simple but elegant opinion is:
Organised Catholic Church itself: V V Bad The people working in the name of goodness via the CHurch (including many of the faithful): V V Good
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#183
06-25-2007, 11:58 PM
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Re: Ask a Catholic?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This is what I was getting at earlier. It's pretty clear in the commandments that there should be no worship of other gods and no worship of false idols, yet the holy trinity, especially the part with mary, goes directly against this. Any thoughts? (And that's just the tip of the iceberg, as you put it. When you get into the idea of the pope and a whole hierarchy of religious figures that are being worshipped, in a sense, things get even muddier.) [/ QUOTE ] The Pope, saints, Mary, etc. aren't worshipped by Catholics they are venerated. We understand their special place in developing the Church, but they aren't worshipped. There is one God we worship. [/ QUOTE ] Ok, look at the excerpt below: [ QUOTE ] Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus - Cite This Source Main Entry: worship Part of Speech: verb Definition: honor Synonyms: admire, adore, adulate, bow down, canonize, celebrate, chant, deify, dote on, esteem, exalt, extol, glorify, idolize, laud, love, magnify, praise, pray to, respect, revere, reverence, sanctify, sing, venerate Antonyms: dishonor, disrespect, hate Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1) Copyright © 2007 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved. [/ QUOTE ] What we have is the epitome of a semantic debate, and surely you can see why some might find the catholic church even blasphemous? I'm not making this claim. Like I said earlier in the thread, i'm an unbiased atheist. I have admiration for and interest in the philosophy of christ but no emotional attachment to the religious aspect. [/ QUOTE ] That entry is somewhat preposterous and uses the word synonym fairly liberally. It puts words like love and admire on the same level as worship as well. I admire Brian Townsend or Tiger Woods, does that mean I am worshipping them on the same level as God?
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#184
06-26-2007, 12:00 AM
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Re: Ask a Catholic?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This is what I was getting at earlier. It's pretty clear in the commandments that there should be no worship of other gods and no worship of false idols, yet the holy trinity, especially the part with mary, goes directly against this. Any thoughts? (And that's just the tip of the iceberg, as you put it. When you get into the idea of the pope and a whole hierarchy of religious figures that are being worshipped, in a sense, things get even muddier.) [/ QUOTE ] The Pope, saints, Mary, etc. aren't worshipped by Catholics they are venerated. We understand their special place in developing the Church, but they aren't worshipped. There is one God we worship. [/ QUOTE ] Catholics pray to saints, yes? So, if there's only one god, is he listening to those prayers? Or does Mary hear them and take some action? If so, what's the deal with that? That's more than veneration, no? That says Mary is some kind of divine being, no? I mean she's dead, right? So, she's not human, but she hears and responds to prayers, so she's some kind of consciousness which is not human and has some standing with Jesus in heaven, no? So, like how's that not a goddess without like totally splitting hairs? BTW, I'm cool with polytheism, I just think Catholicism (and Christianity generally) is not monotheistic except by fiat. Also, after Jesus created the universe, and then like things didn't go so well, so he decided to send himself down to earth as a mortal and have himself be sacrificed to save mankind. Two things: wtf is that and why don't Catholics have sacrifices? Thanks. [/ QUOTE ] I'm curious how you can essentially sacrifice yourself to yourself. I mean, there is no doubt, and so no real act of faith involved. If Jesus is some shining example to us, why is he asking so much more of a leap of faith of others than he ever had to make himself?
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#185
06-26-2007, 12:02 AM
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Re: Ask a Catholic?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This is what I was getting at earlier. It's pretty clear in the commandments that there should be no worship of other gods and no worship of false idols, yet the holy trinity, especially the part with mary, goes directly against this. Any thoughts? (And that's just the tip of the iceberg, as you put it. When you get into the idea of the pope and a whole hierarchy of religious figures that are being worshipped, in a sense, things get even muddier.) [/ QUOTE ] The Pope, saints, Mary, etc. aren't worshipped by Catholics they are venerated. We understand their special place in developing the Church, but they aren't worshipped. There is one God we worship. [/ QUOTE ] Catholics pray to saints, yes? So, if there's only one god, is he listening to those prayers? Or does Mary hear them and take some action? If so, what's the deal with that? That's more than veneration, no? That says Mary is some kind of divine being, no? I mean she's dead, right? So, she's not human, but she hears and responds to prayers, so she's some kind of consciousness which is not human and has some standing with Jesus in heaven, no? So, like how's that not a goddess without like totally splitting hairs? BTW, I'm cool with polytheism, I just think Catholicism (and Christianity generally) is not monotheistic except by fiat. Also, after Jesus created the universe, and then like things didn't go so well, so he decided to send himself down to earth as a mortal and have himself be sacrificed to save mankind. Two things: wtf is that and why don't Catholics have sacrifices? Thanks. [/ QUOTE ] I never really understand praying to saints and whatnot, but some do. I kind of equate to it 2 close friends, one of whom is going thru a difficult time and says to the other "Pray for me to get thru this." Is that person implying that their friend has some kind of god-like ability to help her recover?
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