New AFI 100 (best American films)

[captZEEbo]

[ QUOTE ]
the imdb top 250 is pretty much the only widely-known list that's less respected than the AFI one

[/ QUOTE ]I feel this is pretty unfair to just blanket say this. IMO the imdb top 250 is one of the BETTER introductions to critically acclaimed movies you can have. Since the imdb is voted on by anyone, it helps determine which critically acclaimed (for the most part) movies are most accessible to anyone. Critics all-time lists are best watched if you've seen a lot of critically acclaimed movies IMO. Not sure if that makes sense, but if my friend had not seen the godfather, casablanca, taxi driver, singin' in the rain, rear window, the sting, and a handful of other classics that are very accessible, I would never tell them to start watching classics by watching 8 1/2, citizen kane, battleship potemkin, touch of evil, sunrise, or L'Atalante (which all have a much higher relative value on critics list but a much lower watchable value for a casual fan). I think they'd be turned away pretty quick as it'd be too much a culture shock.

It's less respected by critics, of course, because you don't have to be a critic to vote. But for just casual viewers, I feel it's a much better introduction than critics list like TSPDT or sight and sound or whatever.

Basically, if someone was going to ask me for a good movie to watch, but haven't really seen many movies at all, I would take the top 250, sort it by votes, and just go down from top to bottom and watch everything they hadn't seen. This method is kind of a quick and dirty way to do it, but I think it works fairly well. The reason why I think this method works is because it starts to filter out more obscure stuff that is very highly regarded. IMO the more obscure it is, the less likely it is to be accessible to the person that hasn't seen a lot of movies. Almost all of the movies on this list, I would feel confident showing a group of people that I don't even know and think they'll probably end up glad they saw it. When I go start at the top of this list I am thinking to myself "who do I know that's seen this movie and hasn't liked it?" The farther down I go, the more haters I encounter, but overall still very very few.

here's the top 100 of the top 250 sorted by votes:


The Shawshank Redemption (1994)
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)
Pulp Fiction (1994)
The Matrix (1999)
The Godfather (1972)
Star Wars (1977)
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)
Fight Club (1999)
The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002)
American Beauty (1999)
Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
The Usual Suspects (1995)
Saving Private Ryan (1998)
Schindler's List (1993)
Forrest Gump (1994)
Gladiator (2000)
Memento (2000)
Se7en (1995)
The Sixth Sense (1999)
Braveheart (1995)
The Silence of the Lambs (1991)
Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981)
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (2003)
Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983)
The Godfather: Part II (1974)
Sin City (2005)
Kill Bill: Vol. 1 (2003)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991)
Batman Begins (2005)
Goodfellas (1990)
Reservoir Dogs (1992)
300 (2006)
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (1975)
American History X (1998)
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (2004)
Back to the Future (1985)
Blade Runner (1982)
Donnie Darko (2001)
Shrek (2001)
A Clockwork Orange (1971)
The Departed (2006)
L.A. Confidential (1997)
Casablanca (1942)
The Green Mile (1999)
Fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain, Le (2001)
Apocalypse Now (1979)
V for Vendetta (2005)
Alien (1979)
Aliens (1986)
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964)
Léon (1994)
Fargo (1996)
Monty Python and the Holy Grail (1975)
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
Twelve Monkeys (1995)
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (1989)
The Terminator (1984)
Die Hard (1988)
Requiem for a Dream (2000)
Kill Bill: Vol. 2 (2004)
Crash (2004/I)
Citizen Kane (1941)
The Shining (1980)
The Big Lebowski (1998)
Trainspotting (1996)
Snatch. (2000)
Psycho (1960)
Taxi Driver (1976)
Finding Nemo (2003)
The Princess Bride (1987)
Full Metal Jacket (1987)
Casino Royale (2006)
Jaws (1975)
Heat (1995)
The Incredibles (2004)
Wo hu cang long (2000)
Groundhog Day (1993)
Toy Story (1995)
Magnolia (1999)
Cidade de Deus (2002)
Scarface (1983)
Big Fish (2003)
Million Dollar Baby (2004)
Buono, il brutto, il cattivo, Il (1966)
The Prestige (2006)
Rear Window (1954)
Toy Story 2 (1999)
The Pianist (2002)
It's a Wonderful Life (1946)
Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels (1998)
Vita è bella, La (1997)
The Lion King (1994)
The Wizard of Oz (1939)
Platoon (1986)
Children of Men (2006)
Little Miss Sunshine (2006)
Mystic River (2003)
Amadeus (1984)
Shichinin no samurai (1954)
The Exorcist (1973)
North by Northwest (1959)
Laberinto del fauno, El (2006)
Shaun of the Dead (2004)
Life of Brian (1979)
Vertigo (1958)
12 Angry Men (1957)
Lola rennt (1998)
Unforgiven (1992)
Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi (2001)
Stand by Me (1986)
Finding Neverland (2004)
To Kill a Mockingbird (1962)
Lawrence of Arabia (1962)
The Deer Hunter (1978)
Raging Bull (1980)
Ying xiong (2002)
Gone with the Wind (1939)
The Graduate (1967)
Boot, Das (1981)
Chinatown (1974)
Hotel Rwanda (2004)
Oldboy (2003)
Ed Wood (1994)
Some Like It Hot (1959)
The Sting (1973)
Untergang, Der (2004)
Once Upon a Time in America (1984)
Annie Hall (1977)
Hot Fuzz (2007)
Young Frankenstein (1974)
Mononoke-hime (1997)
The Thing (1982)
C'era una volta il West (1968)
The Bridge on the River Kwai (1957)
Glory (1989)
The Great Escape (1963)
Cinderella Man (2005)
Ben-Hur (1959)
Singin' in the Rain (1952)
Grindhouse (2007)
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
A Christmas Story (1983)
The Maltese Falcon (1941)
Amores perros (2000)
Sling Blade (1996)
The Third Man (1949)
The Elephant Man (1980)
Sunset Blvd. (1950)
Dog Day Afternoon (1975)
Spartacus (1960)
Gandhi (1982)
Before Sunset (2004)
Paths of Glory (1957)
Nuovo cinema Paradiso (1988)
Cool Hand Luke (1967)
Hable con ella (2002)
Rosemary's Baby (1968)
Patton (1970)
On the Waterfront (1954)
The Manchurian Candidate (1962)
M (1931)
King Kong (1933)
Bonnie and Clyde (1967)
Metropolis (1927)
The African Queen (1951)
Rashômon (1950)
All About Eve (1950)
Manhattan (1979)
Ran (1985)
Double Indemnity (1944)
High Noon (1952)
Knocked Up (2006)
Zodiac (2007)
Rebecca (1940)
Per qualche dollaro in più (1965)
Mr. Smith Goes to Washington (1939)
The Apartment (1960)
Touch of Evil (1958)
The Great Dictator (1940)
Strangers on a Train (1951)
Modern Times (1936)
Sjunde inseglet, Det (1957)
Arsenic and Old Lace (1944)
The Treasure of the Sierra Madre (1948)
Notorious (1946)
The Wild Bunch (1969)
The Conversation (1974)
A Streetcar Named Desire (1951)
Mou gaan dou (2002)
The Big Sleep (1946)
The Philadelphia Story (1940)
The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951)
Roman Holiday (1953)
Yojimbo (1961)
Hotaru no haka (1988)
Duck Soup (1933)
Leben der Anderen, Das (2006)
Nosferatu, eine Symphonie des Grauens (1922)
Bringing Up Baby (1938)
Letters from Iwo Jima (2006)
8½ (1963)
The Hustler (1961)
City Lights (1931)
It Happened One Night (1934)
Ladri di biciclette (1948)
The Night of the Hunter (1955)
Harvey (1950)
The Grapes of Wrath (1940)
The Adventures of Robin Hood (1938)
Haine, La (1995)
The Killing (1956)
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)
In the Heat of the Night (1967)
Frankenstein (1931)
All Quiet on the Western Front (1930)
Quatre cents coups, Les (1959)
Stalag 17 (1953)
The General (1927)
The Gold Rush (1925)
Shadow of a Doubt (1943)
Smultronstället (1957)
The Best Years of Our Lives (1946)
Witness for the Prosecution (1957)
Bride of Frankenstein (1935)
Aguirre, der Zorn Gottes (1972)
Stalker (1979)
Ikiru (1952)
The Lady Vanishes (1938)
Cabinet des Dr. Caligari., Das (1920)
Sleuth (1972)
Anatomy of a Murder (1959)
Kumonosu jô (1957)
Judgment at Nuremberg (1961)
Kind Hearts and Coronets (1949)
Diaboliques, Les (1955)
Salaire de la peur, Le (1953)
Brief Encounter (1945)
Battaglia di Algeri, La (1966)
The Lost Weekend (1945)
In Cold Blood (1967)
Out of the Past (1947)
Notti di Cabiria, Le (1957)
Belle et la bête, La (1946)
Tengoku to jigoku (1963)
The Ox-Bow Incident (1943)
Du rififi chez les hommes (1955)
Idi i smotri (1985)
Umberto D. (1952)
Sherlock Jr. (1924)
Seppuku (1962)

[captZEEbo]

oops, I accidentally posted all 250 sorted by votes. The list should end at the exorcist.

[4 High]

My top 10 out of all of the ones i have seen on the AFI Top 100 (I need to see alot of them)

4 High (AMERICAN FILM INSTITUTE'S GREATEST MOVIES)

1. (2.) "The Godfather" (1972)
2. (32.) "The Godfather, Part II" (1974)
3. (13.) "Star Wars" (1977
4. (74.) "The Silence of the Lambs" (1991)
5. (96.) "Do the Right Thing" (1989)
6. (92.) "Goodfellas" (1990)
7. (94.) "Pulp Fiction" (1994)
8. (87.) "12 Angry Men" (1957)
9. (35.) "Annie Hall" (1977)
10. (57.) "Rocky" (1976)

[pryor15]

capt,

as a member of the "serious film community" i can tell you that the imdb list is respected by virtually no one.

is it helpful if you're introducing people to cinema? sure. if i want to know what someone who knows nothing about film might think of a classic, the imdb rating can be useful

but does it have any inherent value as a ranking system? only if you think the People's Choice Award is worth anything

just look at that top 4. if you were to walk up to a film person and say, "Shawshank, Pulp, LOTR, and the Matrix are 4 of the best films ever made," you'd get laughed out of the room

[chuckleslovakian]

[ QUOTE ]
capt,

as a member of the "serious film community" i can tell you that the imdb list is respected by virtually no one.

is it helpful if you're introducing people to cinema? sure. if i want to know what someone who knows nothing about film might think of a classic, the imdb rating can be useful

but does it have any inherent value as a ranking system? only if you think the People's Choice Award is worth anything

just look at that top 4. if you were to walk up to a film person and say, "Shawshank, Pulp, LOTR, and the Matrix are 4 of the best films ever made," you'd get laughed out of the room

[/ QUOTE ]
To be fair, Zeebos list was sorted by number of votes and not overall rating. The top 4 movies on imdb are Godfather 1&2, Shawshank, and The Good The Bad and The Ugly. Still clearly wrong, but still gives the list slightly more credibility.

[captZEEbo]

[ QUOTE ]
but does it have any inherent value as a ranking system?

[/ QUOTE ]yeah, if you want to introduce people to film or discover good films that you just never saw, which is what I think a lot of these lists try to accomplish and what a lot of people try to gain by looking at the lists.

[pryor15]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but does it have any inherent value as a ranking system?

[/ QUOTE ]yeah, if you want to introduce people to film, which is what I think a lot of these lists try to accomplish.

[/ QUOTE ]

some of them, perhaps, but a lot of them, no. most of them are meant to be an actual academic ranking

the imdb list is a glorified popularity contest

[j555]

He didn't say the top 4 were the best films. He was just making the point that if a lot of people rate them highly then they must be somewhat good. The top will be skewed to the more recent films though, and a lot of the films on the top most people have seen anyway if you rank them by # of votes. I also think the IMDB list is a good way to introduce film and that's the point he was trying to make.

[RacersEdge]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but does it have any inherent value as a ranking system?

[/ QUOTE ]yeah, if you want to introduce people to film or discover good films that you just never saw, which is what I think a lot of these lists try to accomplish and what a lot of people try to gain by looking at the lists.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree - the IMBD list takes into account how well a movie "worked" i.e. people connected with the movie and liked it - IMO that is a key factor in rating a movie that "film critics" will overlook. It's like a making a song - one might have more technically correct bass guitar parts in it, have a lead singer with better tonal qualities in his voice, but if another song sounds better to most people, it is a better song.

Edit: maybe not 100% true in all cases, but true in most cases.

[captZEEbo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but does it have any inherent value as a ranking system?

[/ QUOTE ]yeah, if you want to introduce people to film, which is what I think a lot of these lists try to accomplish.

[/ QUOTE ]

some of them, perhaps, but a lot of them, no. most of them are meant to be an actual academic ranking

the imdb list is a glorified popularity contest

[/ QUOTE ]

First off, to call it a glorified popularity contest is somewhat accurate. But think about this, top 250 is similar to box office results, but filtered for people that are somewhat serious about film but not super serious. Collaborative critics lists are just popularity contests filtered for people that are very serious about watching film. So critics lists are just a glorified glorified popularity contest.

I don't think the average movie-goer wants an academic rating but wants movies that they can enjoy and maybe get them to think a little bit requiring little to no prior knowledge about the history of movies. I think imdb achieves this better than most any other list.

I mean, it's as simple as your list is a list critics and aspiring critics should use, and imdb is a list that movie-goers should use.