NBA top 40- Bill Simmons style

[Victor]

assani,

cleveland has a far better chance of winning a title in the next 3 years than chicago and toronto. dunno, why everyone belittles the cavs, they won 50 last year and should win between 46 and 52 this year.

thats 2 solid years and they should be very good next year as varejao, sasha, gibson should continue to improve.

[barryc83]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Paul P - Homer vote?

[/ QUOTE ]I actually think hes ranked too low. I don't know why, but he never gets the credit he deserves. Go look at his numbers for a second and then tell me what you think. In a recent thread I got into a debate about him vs McGrady....his numbers are definitely better than McGradys.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont know if youre talking about all time or what but heres this seasons numbers.

PP 36mpg 25p/6r/4a ft%=80 3pt%=40 fg%=44

TM 36mpg 24p/5r/6a ft%=70 3pt%=33 fg%=43

Look Ill be honest I wasnt big on Tmac until I moved to Houston last year and I pretty much watch all the rockets games now. He is a pretty complete player and will share the ball. I honestly dont think he cares about filling up the stat sheet (although he does), but he really wants to win IMO. I cant comment on PP bc I havent seen him play much, no offense Celtics fans but your team never gets nationwide coverage and I dont have nbatv. McGrady brings it every night.

[Fallen Hero]

I always thought TMac was a lot closer to Kobe than to Paul Pierce, he's just on a different talent level. His numbers aren't nearly as good as they might be though, injuries may have a lot to do with that.

[kidcolin]

barry,

As others have said, it's really damn close. I give a slight edge to PP because I'm a homer and because he doesn't have a chronic back problem. I think it's mostly a push, though. When TMac is in top form I give him a slight edge. He's a beter ball-handler and sees the floor a bit better, IMO. But I would never swap PP straight up for TMac (ignoring contracts, because I don't know TMacs contract situation. I'm sure Houston fans feel the same way).

[Eagles]

Drew,
Kobe is aging most people reach there physical peak at 27-28 in the next few years it is likely he will regress.

[DrewDevil]

[ QUOTE ]
Drew,
Kobe is aging most people reach there physical peak at 27-28 in the next few years it is likely he will regress.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am posting the stats of the five best players I've seen since I've been watching basketball. The year they each turned 30 is in bold.

Michael Jordan (born 2/17/63)
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
84-85 CHI 82 82 38.3 .515 .173 .845 2.00 4.50 6.50 5.9 2.39 .84 3.55 3.50 28.2
85-86 CHI 18 7 25.1 .457 .167 .840 1.30 2.30 3.60 2.9 2.06 1.17 2.50 2.60 22.7
86-87 CHI 82 82 40.0 .482 .182 .857 2.00 3.20 5.20 4.6 2.88 1.52 3.32 2.90 37.1
87-88 CHI 82 82 40.4 .535 .132 .841 1.70 3.80 5.50 5.9 3.16 1.60 3.07 3.30 35.0
88-89 CHI 81 81 40.2 .538 .276 .850 1.80 6.20 8.00 8.0 2.89 .80 3.58 3.00 32.5
89-90 CHI 82 82 39.0 .526 .376 .848 1.70 5.10 6.90 6.3 2.77 .66 3.01 2.90 33.6
90-91 CHI 82 82 37.0 .539 .312 .851 1.40 4.60 6.00 5.5 2.72 1.01 2.46 2.80 31.5
91-92 CHI 80 80 38.8 .519 .270 .832 1.10 5.30 6.40 6.1 2.28 .94 2.50 2.50 30.1
92-93 CHI 78 78 39.3 .495 .352 .837 1.70 5.00 6.70 5.5 2.83 .78 2.65 2.40 32.6
94-95 CHI 17 17 39.3 .411 .500 .801 1.50 5.40 6.90 5.3 1.76 .76 2.06 2.80 26.9
95-96 CHI 82 82 37.7 .495 .427 .834 1.80 4.80 6.60 4.3 2.20 .51 2.40 2.40 30.4
96-97 CHI 82 82 37.9 .486 .374 .833 1.40 4.50 5.90 4.3 1.71 .54 2.02 1.90 29.6
97-98 CHI 82 82 38.8 .465 .238 .784 1.60 4.20 5.80 3.5 1.72 .55 2.26 1.80 28.7
01-02 WAS 60 53 34.9 .416 .189 .790 .80 4.80 5.70 5.2 1.42 .43 2.70 2.00 22.9
02-03 WAS 82 67 37.0 .445 .291 .821 .90 5.20 6.10 3.8 1.50 .48 2.11 2.10 20.0

Larry Bird (born 12/7/56)
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
79-80 BOS 82 82 36.0 .474 .406 .836 2.60 7.80 10.40 4.5 1.74 .65 3.21 3.40 21.3
80-81 BOS 82 82 39.5 .478 .270 .863 2.30 8.60 10.90 5.5 1.96 .77 3.52 2.90 21.2
81-82 BOS 77 58 38.0 .503 .212 .863 2.60 8.30 10.90 5.8 1.86 .86 3.30 3.20 22.9
82-83 BOS 79 79 37.7 .504 .286 .840 2.40 8.60 11.00 5.8 1.87 .90 3.04 2.50 23.6
83-84 BOS 79 77 38.3 .492 .247 .888 2.30 7.80 10.10 6.6 1.82 .87 3.00 2.50 24.2
84-85 BOS 80 77 39.5 .522 .427 .882 2.10 8.50 10.50 6.6 1.61 1.23 3.10 2.60 28.7
85-86 BOS 82 81 38.0 .496 .423 .896 2.30 7.50 9.80 6.8 2.02 .62 3.24 2.20 25.8
86-87 BOS 74 73 40.6 .525 .400 .910 1.70 7.50 9.20 7.6 1.82 .95 3.24 2.50 28.1
87-88 BOS 76 75 39.0 .527 .414 .916 1.40 7.80 9.30 6.1 1.64 .75 2.80 2.10 29.9
88-89 BOS 6 6 31.5 .471 .000 .947 .20 6.00 6.20 4.8 1.00 .83 1.83 3.00 19.3
89-90 BOS 75 75 39.3 .473 .333 .930 1.20 8.30 9.50 7.5 1.41 .81 3.24 2.30 24.3
90-91 BOS 60 60 38.0 .454 .389 .891 .90 7.60 8.50 7.2 1.80 .97 3.12 2.00 19.4
91-92 BOS 45 45 36.9 .466 .406 .926 1.00 8.60 9.60 6.8 .93 .73 2.78 1.80 20.2

Magic Johnson (born 8/14/59)
79-80 LAL 77 2795 503 949 .530 374 462 .810 166 430 596 563 187 41 305 1387 7.7 7.3 18.0
80-81 LAL 37 1371 312 587 .532 171 225 .760 101 219 320 317 127 27 143 798 8.6 8.6 21.6
81-82 LAL 78 2991 556 1036 .537 329 433 .760 252 499 751 743 208 34 286 1447 9.6 9.5 18.6
82-83 LAL 79 2907 511 933 .548 304 380 .800 214 469 683 *829 176 47 301 1326 8.6 *10.5 16.8
83-84 LAL 67 2567 441 780 .565 290 358 .810 99 392 491 875 150 49 306 1178 7.3 *13.1 17.6
84-85 LAL 77 2781 504 899 .561 391 464 .843 90 386 476 968 113 25 305 1406 6.2 12.6 18.3
85-86 LAL 72 2578 483 918 .526 378 434 .871 85 341 426 *907 113 16 273 1354 5.9 *12.6 18.8
86-87 LAL 80 2904 683 1308 .522 535 631 .848 122 382 504 *977 138 36 300 1909 6.3 *12.2 23.9
87-88 LAL 72 2637 490 996 .492 417 489 .853 88 361 449 858 114 13 269 1408 6.2 11.9 19.6
88-89 LAL 77 2886 579 1137 .509 513 563 *.911 111 496 607 988 138 22 312 1730 7.9 12.8 22.5
89-90 LAL 79 2937 546 1138 .480 567 637 .890 128 394 522 907 132 34 289 1765 6.6 11.5 22.3
90-91 LAL 79 2933 466 976 .477 519 573 .906 105 446 551 989 102 17 *314 1531 7.0 12.5 19.4
91-92 LAL Did not play—retired.
92-93 LAL Did not play—retired.
93-94 LAL Did not play—retired.
94-95 LAL Did not play—retired.
95-96 LAL 32 958 137 294 .466 172 201 .856 40 143 183 220 26 13 103 468 5.7 6.9 14.6

Hakeem Olajuwon (born 1/21/63)
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
84-85 HOU 82 82 35.5 .538 .000 .613 5.40 6.50 11.90 1.4 1.21 2.68 2.85 4.20 20.6
85-86 HOU 68 68 36.3 .526 .000 .645 4.90 6.60 11.50 2.0 1.97 3.40 2.87 4.00 23.5
86-87 HOU 75 75 36.8 .508 .200 .702 4.20 7.20 11.40 2.9 1.87 3.39 3.04 3.90 23.4
87-88 HOU 79 79 35.8 .514 .000 .695 3.80 8.30 12.10 2.1 2.05 2.71 3.08 4.10 22.8
88-89 HOU 82 82 36.9 .508 .000 .696 4.10 9.40 13.50 1.8 2.60 3.44 3.35 4.00 24.8
89-90 HOU 82 82 38.1 .501 .167 .713 3.60 10.40 14.00 2.9 2.12 4.59 3.85 3.80 24.3
90-91 HOU 56 50 36.8 .508 .000 .769 3.90 9.80 13.80 2.3 2.16 3.95 3.11 3.90 21.2
91-92 HOU 70 69 37.7 .502 .000 .766 3.50 8.60 12.10 2.2 1.81 4.34 2.67 3.80 21.6
92-93 HOU 82 82 39.5 .529 .000 .779 3.50 9.60 13.00 3.5 1.83 4.17 3.20 3.70 26.1
93-94 HOU 80 80 41.0 .528 .421 .716 2.90 9.10 11.90 3.6 1.60 3.71 3.39 3.60 27.3
94-95 HOU 72 72 39.6 .517 .188 .756 2.40 8.40 10.80 3.5 1.85 3.36 3.29 3.50 27.8
95-96 HOU 72 72 38.8 .514 .214 .724 2.40 8.40 10.90 3.6 1.57 2.88 3.43 3.40 26.9
96-97 HOU 78 78 36.6 .510 .313 .787 2.20 7.00 9.20 3.0 1.50 2.22 3.60 3.20 23.2
97-98 HOU 47 45 34.7 .483 .000 .755 2.50 7.30 9.80 3.0 1.79 2.04 2.68 3.20 16.4
98-99 HOU 50 50 35.7 .514 .308 .717 2.10 7.40 9.60 1.8 1.64 2.46 2.78 3.20 18.9
99-00 HOU 44 28 23.8 .458 .000 .616 1.50 4.80 6.20 1.4 .93 1.59 1.66 2.00 10.3
00-01 HOU 58 55 26.6 .498 .000 .621 2.10 5.30 7.40 1.2 1.21 1.52 1.40 2.40 11.9
01-02 TOR 61 37 22.6 .464 .000 .560 1.60 4.40 6.00 1.1 1.21 1.48 1.61 2.40 7.1

Charles Barkley (born 2/20/63)
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
84-85 PHI 82 60 28.6 .545 .167 .733 3.20 5.30 8.60 1.9 1.16 .98 2.55 3.70 14.0
85-86 PHI 80 80 36.9 .572 .227 .685 4.40 8.40 12.80 3.9 2.16 1.56 4.38 4.20 20.0
86-87 PHI 68 62 40.3 .594 .202 .761 5.70 8.90 14.60 4.9 1.75 1.53 4.74 3.70 23.0
87-88 PHI 80 80 39.6 .587 .280 .751 4.80 7.10 11.90 3.2 1.25 1.29 3.80 3.50 28.3
88-89 PHI 79 79 39.1 .579 .216 .753 5.10 7.40 12.50 4.1 1.59 .85 3.22 3.30 25.8
89-90 PHI 79 79 39.1 .600 .217 .749 4.60 6.90 11.50 3.9 1.87 .63 3.08 3.20 25.2
90-91 PHI 67 67 37.3 .570 .284 .722 3.90 6.30 10.10 4.2 1.64 .49 3.13 2.60 27.6
91-92 PHI 75 75 38.4 .552 .234 .695 3.60 7.50 11.10 4.1 1.81 .59 3.13 2.60 23.1
92-93 PHO 76 76 37.6 .520 .305 .765 3.10 9.10 12.20 5.1 1.57 .97 3.07 2.60 25.6
93-94 PHO 65 65 35.4 .495 .270 .704 3.00 8.10 11.20 4.6 1.55 .57 3.17 2.50 21.6
94-95 PHO 68 66 35.0 .486 .338 .748 3.00 8.10 11.10 4.1 1.62 .66 2.21 3.00 23.0
95-96 PHO 71 71 37.1 .500 .280 .777 3.40 8.10 11.60 3.7 1.61 .79 3.07 2.90 23.2
96-97 HOU 53 53 37.9 .484 .283 .694 4.00 9.50 13.50 4.7 1.30 .47 2.85 2.90 19.2
97-98 HOU 68 41 33.0 .485 .214 .746 3.50 8.10 11.70 3.2 1.04 .41 2.16 2.80 15.2
98-99 HOU 42 40 36.3 .478 .160 .719 4.00 8.30 12.30 4.6 1.02 .31 2.38 2.10 16.1
99-00 HOU 20 18 31.0 .477 .231 .645 3.60 6.90 10.50 3.2 .70 .20 2.20 2.40 14.5

As you can see, none of these guys were declining at age 30. There's no reason to think Kobe will either.

[Spellmen]

Kobe will start to decline physically, but so did MJ and every other superstar. Like these guys, Kobe has the game to still succeed after some of his athleticism leaves him. MJ mastered the fadeaway and post up in their second 3peat. I think in his earlier days and first championship run he did alot more slashing and relied on his athleticism.

I really am not trying to start a MJ/Kobe debate, merely point out that he has the type of ability and basketball IQ to succeed even when he is no longer one of the most athletic players in the league

[whipsaw]

[ QUOTE ]

As you can see, none of these guys were declining at age 30. There's no reason to think Kobe will either.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's good stuff, but none of those players were playing 80 game seasons of pro ball at 18 either.

[gusmahler]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

As you can see, none of these guys were declining at age 30. There's no reason to think Kobe will either.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's good stuff, but none of those players were playing 80 game seasons of pro ball at 18 either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kobe averaged 15.5 minutes per game his first year and 26 minutes per year his second year. His third year was cut short by the labor dispute.

[DrewDevil]

Just looking at Barkley's rebounding numbers again... dude was so awesome.

You can also see that these guys DID start to decline pretty dramatically at about 34-35 (well, except Jordan). But they were all at their peak at 30.