New Fight Question

[hmkpoker]

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If the UFC fighter was the one with the edge in a fight to the death, SEALs would be copying their techniques.


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The banned techniques that SEALs employ are designed to be employed against someone who doesn't have extensive training in hand to hand combat. Those moves become relatively useless against someone who knows how to defend themselves.

Also a MMA fighter may not have the necessary training to go for the kill right off the bat, but their sport is tailored to submissions and knockouts. The submission moves if they don't cause a tapout will cause the opponent to be incapacitated or unconcious after which it will be very easy to finish them off.

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The MMA fighter isn't trained to deal with techniques that are illegal in MMA, and has a fighting style built on the assumption that his opponent will not employ them. But you do have a good point about the SEALs and I don't know how much either of these variables woudl play out.

[Sanchez1Fan]

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If the UFC fighter was the one with the edge in a fight to the death, SEALs would be copying their techniques.


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The banned techniques that SEALs employ are designed to be employed against someone who doesn't have extensive training in hand to hand combat. Those moves become relatively useless against someone who knows how to defend themselves.

Also a MMA fighter may not have the necessary training to go for the kill right off the bat, but their sport is tailored to submissions and knockouts. The submission moves if they don't cause a tapout will cause the opponent to be incapacitated or unconcious after which it will be very easy to finish them off.

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The MMA fighter isn't trained to deal with techniques that are illegal in MMA, and has a fighting style built on the assumption that his opponent will not employ them. But you do have a good point about the SEALs and I don't know how much either of these variables woudl play out.

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so you think that the seals are trained to deal with the techniqes the ufc will be bringing on them?

[diddle]

To the people saying SEALs,

SEALs would pick the best MMA fighter.

[Sanchez1Fan]

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To the people saying SEALs,

SEALs would pick the best MMA fighter.

[/ QUOTE ]i started a post on the navy.com seals forum asking the seals this very question with a link to this thread but the mods have to aprove all threads before they are posted and they take the weekends off. so i'll see on monday if the navy mods aprovec my thread.

i posted this one on the other seals forum but i have got no replies yet.
http://www.navyseals.com/community/forum...;kw=sanchez1fan

[southerndog]

Look at someone like matt hughes.. He was an ALL AMERICAN in wrestling.. Randy Couture was an alternate for the Olympics.. These guys are ELITE athletes aside from being tough as nails.

Navy Seals in all likelyhood aren't nearly as athletic cause if they were, they'd probably have go to college for an athletic scholarship. They are guys that , compared to the average person are in fantastic shape, but they are not in that ELITE ELITE group like hughes and couture.

[John Kilduff]

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SEAL fans,

The SEAL addition to being an expert fighter is also an expert in all sorts of stuff like underwater stuff, maybe explosives, all sorts of weapons, tracking perhaps, survival, possibly languages and electronics, surveillance, camoflauge - I could go on.

On the other hand, the UFC guy just trains to be the best at one thing - fighting.

I also am assuming that the world's best martial artist is going to be more or less like the world's best Brazilian jiujitsu fighter.

I stick by my original answer:

World's best ultimate fighting champion
World's best karate and or other Asian martial arts.
World's most elite Navy Seal as far as hand to hand combat is concerned.
World's best boxer
World's best real streetfighter from a gang or whatever.

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OK I think I really need to stress something that virtually everyone in this thread seems to be ignoring.

It *isn't* all just about training and conditioning and which style is theoretically better. It's also about experience *under the conditions of the contest*. This is a huge factor.

Here are a few examples of the kind of thing that happens every day:

A sparring karate or sparring tae kwon do guy, who is a blackbelt, gets his ass whipped in a bar fight.

A professional boxer loses in a street fight.

A black belt loses to a guy who has been boxing for only a year.

A new poker player studies the best books, actually works through and absorbs the basic concepts, then goes out to try it in the real world. Initial results: disaster.

A good golfer, even a pro, may often choke if the bet is higher than his comfort level and thus loses to the lesser skilled (at golf) professional gambler.

These things happen all the time. The reason is lack of experience *under the contest conditions*.

Point sparring in martial arts contests is not real fighting. Yes, the tae kwon do guy mentioned earlier was head-and-shoulders above the SEALs *for point sparring*. But what if they actually started trading blows? How much could the tae kwon do guy take? Say the SEAL slipped the blows slightly so he got hit a few times but never really solidly. Then he grabs the tae kwon do guy, getting hit in the ear in the process, and smashes him squarely in the face with his elbow. What then? How much shock and punishment can the guy who is used to "fighting lite" actually absorb and continue performing at a high level?

Boxing, kickboxing, and UFC is not Asian Muay Thai where "if they are weak, you can hear when their bones break" as an ex-pro Muay Thai fighter from Laos once told me. Everyone, please think about that for just a moment.

And Asian Muay Thai is not fighting to the death.

One of the reasons Mike Tyson and Bruce Lee were so phenomenal: they were both originally street fighters. Mike Tyson was, I have heard, a professional mugger as a teenager, and Bruce Lee was a tough guy in the street gangs of Kowloon. They fought often and early in life and it wasn't just within a contest with rules. Maybe that side of Iron Mike came out when he chewed off Holyfield's ear.

When the stakes are higher than one is accustomed to, as it would be for the contestants other than the Navy SEAL and possibly the street fighter, one well might have a touch of hesitation or miscue or make an error in reaction or judgment. Also, when one gets hurt more than one is accustomed to, an error as a result of the pain and shock may occur.

UFC guys take some pain but they don't take the kind of pain Muay Thai fighters give and take on a regular basis in Asia. And UFC'ers know that only an unlucky event will kill them in the ring.

In old-fashioned duels with pistols, it often wasn't the man with better target shooting aim that won. It was often the coolest cat under extreme pressure who beat the guy who was supposed to be the better shot.

If the UFC guys ever got a few true death-match experiences under their belts, then yes I'd pick them over the SEALs and Asian (yes from Asia!) Muay Thai fighters. But as I said before, I don't really know how to pick between the three for sure. That's because experience under actual conditions is worth a lot. Muay Thai'ers in Asia give and take brutal blows all the time, WAY more than boxers or "kickboxers" do. The best combat fighting SEAL in the world (we will assume) has experience in killing in hand-to-hand situations.

The contest conditions described in this thread would have a large weight on experience under those conditions. Being a life-or-death gladiator is different than other kinds of sports, even rough sports, even different than martial arts sports...at least until one has some (successful;-)) experience at fighting to the death.

I could be wrong and the best SEAL might get destroyed by the best UFC-er instead of it being a fair match or a toss-up. But even if I'm wrong on that, I'm not wrong regarding the value of experience under the actual conditions being very important. And actual conditions experience is more important than most participants in this thread seem to be giving it credit for.

Thanks for listening.

[hmkpoker]

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so you think that the seals are trained to deal with the techniqes the ufc will be bringing on them?

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I admit this is a flawed assumption, since while they might be trained to fight to the death, I don't know the level of skill they are trained against, or the environmental conditions (a MMA fighter would almost certainly have "home court advantage" unless it was in a jungle or barracks or something.)

Tough call, but now I'm leaning more toward MMA fighter.

[Keepitsimple]

I think the MMA guy is a lock.

However I think some of you are underestimating boxing. The best boxers draw from a bigger talent pool since its more money in it.

My rank is:
1. UFC champ
2-3. Boxer
3-4. seal
5. street fighter(this guy is too busy dealing drugs to become leet)

I dont know where to put karate guy. If his martial art involves no ground game I think a boxer is a lock vs him since boxing is much more effect than kicking. I could also see a seal guy beat an akido champ or some very weak martial art.

[NewTeaBag]

Death be the key to the equation.

Boxers aen't trained to kill.
Streetfighters aren't trained to kill.
UFC fighters aen't trained to kill.

Only Elite martial artists and SEALs are trained to KILL.

Most fights are won or lost before the 1st punch/kick is ever landed.

The best combat (killing trained) fighter would kill then have a cup of tea. IOW not feel any social/moral compunction.

It takes a lot to kill someone. Until you have done it, don't underestimate the requirements which greatly exceed the requirements to perform (read UFC, boxer, streetfighter).

3 years ago an SAS member was awarded The Victoria Cross (UKs equivalent of Medal of Honor). He went with his squad to root out some Taliban fighters from a cave. He was shot in both legs, the torso and an arm. Once the fight was too close for firearms, he caried on, killing about 10 taliban on his own, with a knife.

The moral of his story is simple: A killing machine (not a performing machine) wins the battle to the death.

Best SEAL (insert similar SpecOps member from other countries/services)wins the fight against all stated opponents. Only the Best martial artist would pose a real challenge.

[snagglepuss]

any answer but Fedor is wrong.