Just Saw Sicko, Now Have Question

[The4Aces]

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I don't want a "minimum standard of living." You do. Why should you get your way?

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Because a super-majority(80-85% according to polls) of Americans support providing a minimum standard care of people, which is why you don't even see the most conservative Republicans advocating a dismantling of our government.

Poll from Pollingreport.com:

ABC News/Washington Post Poll. Oct. 9-13, 2003. N=1,000 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (total sample). Fieldwork by TNS Intersearch.

"Which of these do you think is more important: providing health care coverage for all Americans, even if it means raising taxes, OR, holding down taxes, even if it means some Americans do not have health care coverage?" Options rotated

79% say providing, 17% say holding down taxes, and 4% are unsure. That poll is not an outlier either. If you look on Google you will see that poll after poll shows that Americans want universal health care. In fact, in some polls that I have seen, slight majorities of Americans, like 55-45%, even favor a single payer health care system. These ideas are not radical, they are mainstream.

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what would you say about an opt in system. For example if you can opt in to healthcare program by giving up 10% more of your wages. However you can opt out and taxes will not be increased for you individually? Or do you want to FORCE people to pay for others?

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the only way to get the benefits that we in similar systems is to force people into it by having either employers or employees contribute a portion of their paycheck into the system. most people would end up paying less than they pay for their private health care, and would never have to worry about losing their health insurance like they can when they get fired. there would be no health care bankruptcies anymore.

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So I am guessing your answer is no you would not be for an opt in system. You think it is right for the government to force someone to do something that they dont want to do.

[John Spartan]

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I don't want a "minimum standard of living." You do. Why should you get your way?

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Because a super-majority(80-85% according to polls) of Americans support providing a minimum standard care of people, which is why you don't even see the most conservative Republicans advocating a dismantling of our government.

Poll from Pollingreport.com:

ABC News/Washington Post Poll. Oct. 9-13, 2003. N=1,000 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (total sample). Fieldwork by TNS Intersearch.

"Which of these do you think is more important: providing health care coverage for all Americans, even if it means raising taxes, OR, holding down taxes, even if it means some Americans do not have health care coverage?" Options rotated

79% say providing, 17% say holding down taxes, and 4% are unsure. That poll is not an outlier either. If you look on Google you will see that poll after poll shows that Americans want universal health care. In fact, in some polls that I have seen, slight majorities of Americans, like 55-45%, even favor a single payer health care system. These ideas are not radical, they are mainstream.

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what would you say about an opt in system. For example if you can opt in to healthcare program by giving up 10% more of your wages. However you can opt out and taxes will not be increased for you individually? Or do you want to FORCE people to pay for others?

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the only way to get the benefits that we in similar systems is to force people into it by having either employers or employees contribute a portion of their paycheck into the system. most people would end up paying less than they pay for their private health care, and would never have to worry about losing their health insurance like they can when they get fired. there would be no health care bankruptcies anymore.

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So I am guessing your answer is no you would not be for an opt in system. You think it is right for the government to force someone to do something that they dont want to do.

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the government forces some people to do stuff that they don't want to do all the time. the speed limit on public roads. people have to drive on public roads to get where they are going. they can violate the law, but run the risk of getting a ticket. how is this any different?

the federal government forced southern states to stop being backwards and integrate their schools. i'm sure a lot of white people down south didn't want to do that. a lot are still unhappy about it.

[kerowo]

How many people do you think would not opt in? The net effect on your health insurance would be the same as the number of people paying that way decreased.

How many laws are there that force people to do something they don't want to do? The whole point of governement is to force people to do what they don't want to do.

[John Spartan]

people are required to pay property taxes to fund public schools(among other things), even if they don't send their kids there. there is ample precedent for funding for collective purposes.

they also force people to get their car inspected regularly for safety and to have a driver's license to drive on public roads. i could list hundreds of examples but what's the point.

[The4Aces]

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I don't want a "minimum standard of living." You do. Why should you get your way?

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Because a super-majority(80-85% according to polls) of Americans support providing a minimum standard care of people, which is why you don't even see the most conservative Republicans advocating a dismantling of our government.

Poll from Pollingreport.com:

ABC News/Washington Post Poll. Oct. 9-13, 2003. N=1,000 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (total sample). Fieldwork by TNS Intersearch.

"Which of these do you think is more important: providing health care coverage for all Americans, even if it means raising taxes, OR, holding down taxes, even if it means some Americans do not have health care coverage?" Options rotated

79% say providing, 17% say holding down taxes, and 4% are unsure. That poll is not an outlier either. If you look on Google you will see that poll after poll shows that Americans want universal health care. In fact, in some polls that I have seen, slight majorities of Americans, like 55-45%, even favor a single payer health care system. These ideas are not radical, they are mainstream.

[/ QUOTE ]

what would you say about an opt in system. For example if you can opt in to healthcare program by giving up 10% more of your wages. However you can opt out and taxes will not be increased for you individually? Or do you want to FORCE people to pay for others?

[/ QUOTE ]'

the only way to get the benefits that we in similar systems is to force people into it by having either employers or employees contribute a portion of their paycheck into the system. most people would end up paying less than they pay for their private health care, and would never have to worry about losing their health insurance like they can when they get fired. there would be no health care bankruptcies anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

So I am guessing your answer is no you would not be for an opt in system. You think it is right for the government to force someone to do something that they dont want to do.

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the government forces some people to do stuff that they don't want to do all the time. the speed limit on public roads. people have to drive on public roads to get where they are going. they can violate the law, but run the risk of getting a ticket. how is this any different?

the federal government forced southern states to stop being backwards and integrate their schools. i'm sure a lot of white people down south didn't want to do that. a lot are still unhappy about it.

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The government should step in and prevent people from hurting or oppresing other peoples rights. Thats why there are speeding tickets. speeding is dangerous for yourself, but also for the people around you.

the school thing was hurting other people.

not opting in for health care would not hurt other people.

[John Spartan]

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not opting in for health care would not hurt other people.

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yes it would. and it's telling that now i see you supporting an opt in government run system. it['s telling because you realize you are in a small minority of people opposed to funding universal health care and you want to compromise. no compromise is needed. you can just be outvoted. you'll see- it's coming.

[The4Aces]

No I am not for an opt in system. I was just wondering if you were to see what your opinion was.

[John Spartan]

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No I am not for an opt in system. I was just wondering if you were to see what your opinion was.

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no it won't work. the only way for it to work is to mandate it. and the people who think that is immoral but have no problem with speed limits or dui laws really puzzle me. if you have a practical objection to a government funded health care system, that's different. i haven't seen many of those.

[guids]

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John, I really hope you stop with teh inflated sense of self-satisfaction, using moores tactics of not arguing, and just saying that something is stupid makes you look like an idiot. There are tons of good points people are making that you gloss over. Health care is not a right, you cant prove that it is, so stop saying it is, just because you believe it so, just means that you are selfish. As much as everyone likes to say conservatives etc are the most selfish bunch on earth, imo, whats more selfish, telling people what they have to do with their money, or just letting other people be to make their own choices?

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What right am I glossing over, guids? I have responded to every post that I have seen directed at me. If I miss one then please point it out. Contrast this with the people like Emperor lying about facts, and when confronted with the true data, they ignore it and go off on tangents and trolling.

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I never said you didnt respond, but responding with "na na na na boo boo you are all stupid ACers" doesnt really count for [censored] in my book.

[odellthurman]

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Health care is not a right, you cant prove that it is, so stop saying it is, just because you believe it so, just means that you are selfish.

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Guids - How can you prove health insurance is or isn't a right?

And here is a link to a definition of selfish - http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/selfish - you have got to be trolling or kidding with that comment.