Official October Thread: General Discussion

[TheMetetron]

Isura,

5-10% would be my guess as well and I'm sure those would've gotten there without the coaching.

[G_Dollaz]

[ QUOTE ]
side question, how many hands does one need to determine specific hand win rates?

my biggest losers that i play seem to be JTo/J9o/KQo/T9o/JTs, should i simply dump these hands preflop more often than i'm doing right now?

[/ QUOTE ]

It takes a LOOOOONNNNNNGGGGGG time. I'd say it takes more hands than anyone on this forum will ever play in their life. Over my last 100k+ hands I'm down money w/ AKs obv my 500k hands prior I was winning @ a solid clip w/ it. If a hand that profitable can be down money over 100k hands I think it will take a very long time to determine a true winrate, maybe 10 million hands, maybe more.

[LucidDream]

[ QUOTE ]
All of you people who want to read a book or get a coach to teach you how to beat the higher levels of poker make me laugh. First, you are just being retardedly lazy and second there is only so much that someone can teach you. If you learn to figure the game out for yourself, you will always be able to beat the games at a good clip. If you are always trying to imitate other people, you will always be behind the curve.

This isn't a shot at Bobbo's book or coaches, but a general observation brought about a friend I have who is attempting to receive a ton of coaching in an attempt to beat msnl. I hate to break it to people, that just isn't going to work.

There are always new things that I am needing to figure out and solve in this game. I prefer to be able to do it myself and stay among the biggest winners; I don't think crying to a coach every time I have a situation he hasn't spoon-fed me an answer to already is going to make anyone a very good player.

Also, it isn't kosher to say, but a lot of people just don't have the raw skills and intelligence to beat this game, especially as you get into the higher levels. I'm still unsure of my place, but I'm sure I'll level out at a point where I just can't beat the competition anymore. And that's OK.

[/ QUOTE ]

there is a lot of ignorance in this post IMO. while i tend to go the route of figuring things out myself or discussing it w/ a few other good players i certainly think a coach could be helpful for probably just about anyone. i've had one before for a few sessions and i'm sure i will get one again at some point.

yea, i do think relying on someone to feed you lines to take isn't the best for your game but if they give you an alternative line w/ the reasoning why it's good and you learn a new concept then you improve.

[Yeti]

metetron you know tiger woods has a coach right? he's such an idiot, i don't know why he doesn't just work through the problems with his swing himself.

maybe he just doesn't have the mental capacity to think about the game of golf the way you think about poker, i dunno.

[LucidDream]

lol...yeti wins as usual

[jfish]

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lol...yeti wins as usual

[/ QUOTE ]

[TheMetetron]

[ QUOTE ]
metetron you know tiger woods has a coach right? he's such an idiot, i don't know why he doesn't just work through the problems with his swing himself.

maybe he just doesn't have the mental capacity to think about the game of golf the way you think about poker, i dunno.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is a mental game such as poker comparable with golf? You'd have a better analogy going with Bobby Fischer or some great chess player. To which I'd say you have a much better argument, but I'd contend that the games are different enough for that comparison to not be completely valid.

I've never said getting a coach is stupid, just the idea many have that a coach will transform them into a great player with their magical knowledge (this is seriously 90% of the coaching requests I get).

LucidDream,

I agree with you.

[trplthrt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
side question, how many hands does one need to determine specific hand win rates?

my biggest losers that i play seem to be JTo/J9o/KQo/T9o/JTs, should i simply dump these hands preflop more often than i'm doing right now?

[/ QUOTE ]

It takes a LOOOOONNNNNNGGGGGG time. I'd say it takes more hands than anyone on this forum will ever play in their life. Over my last 100k+ hands I'm down money w/ AKs obv my 500k hands prior I was winning @ a solid clip w/ it. If a hand that profitable can be down money over 100k hands I think it will take a very long time to determine a true winrate, maybe 10 million hands, maybe more.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're off here. There is a statistical significance at a certain number of hands. My statistics are rusty, but it is certainly not 10mln.

The one thing you need to look at is not combine levels.. you could win a hand with AK at 5/10 and lose one at 10/20 and be down w/ AK in your database.

[Yeti]

it's comparable because oftentimes when you aren't getting the results you want you are incapable of identifying what it is exactly you're doing wrong.

that's when some kind person steps in and points out your flaws and the things you need to work on.

[G_Dollaz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
side question, how many hands does one need to determine specific hand win rates?

my biggest losers that i play seem to be JTo/J9o/KQo/T9o/JTs, should i simply dump these hands preflop more often than i'm doing right now?

[/ QUOTE ]

It takes a LOOOOONNNNNNGGGGGG time. I'd say it takes more hands than anyone on this forum will ever play in their life. Over my last 100k+ hands I'm down money w/ AKs obv my 500k hands prior I was winning @ a solid clip w/ it. If a hand that profitable can be down money over 100k hands I think it will take a very long time to determine a true winrate, maybe 10 million hands, maybe more.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're off here. There is a statistical significance at a certain number of hands. My statistics are rusty, but it is certainly not 10mln.

The one thing you need to look at is not combine levels.. you could win a hand with AK at 5/10 and lose one at 10/20 and be down w/ AK in your database.

[/ QUOTE ]

the last 600k hands which I'm talking about are all 2/4

edit: I'm obv no statistician, but I just feel that if one of my biggest winning hands can be down money after that many hands @ the same level w/out signifigantly effecting my winrate that it must take a very, very long time.... It could be less than 10 mil, sure, but it's easily over a mill I think