Kenneth Foster To Die For Waiting In A Car

[Edge34]

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Interesting factoid:

Of those executed, 626 (58%) were white and 372 (34%) were black.

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Another interesting fact: According to the 2000 U.S. Census, the U.S. is 75% white and 12% black.

Link - http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/c2kprof00-us.pdf

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So, uh, does that mean that you think execution numbers should be 75% white and 12% black, or what? Because that wouldn't make much sense at all, since, you know, the crimes people are convicted of kinda matter too.

[kevin017]

"Mike Ramos, among the prosecutors in the trial, said he found Foster's claims unbelievable.

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Ramos said it was clear to him that Foster was "the puppet master pulling all the strings" during the robbery spree."

Given, this was said by a prosecutor, but let's say its true. Foster orchestrated everything. Still feel sorry for him?

That's why I think people are assuming too much here. We know very little detail about what went on, yet some people are acting like its outrageous people in these situations could potentially get the death penalty. The sad sack media story, focusing on his crappy childhood, just might make him a victim of injustice in your mind. But he's not. He's a dangerous felon who deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail. People who know more about the case should decide life in prison or death. the difference between the two isn't even big enough to get all pissy over.

[John Kilduff]

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A lot of states have laws make "felony murder" (a death occurring as a result of the commission of a felony) equivalent to first degree murder. This has always struck me as excessive. While I think that a getaway driver in an armed robbery or the like should be held accountable if a death occurs, equating it with first degree murder has always struck me as disproportionate. It seems to me that second degree murder or manslaughter would me more appropriate.

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QFT, and it's a misguided and immoral sort of law IMO.

[John Kilduff]

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Interesting factoid:

Of those executed, 626 (58%) were white and 372 (34%) were black.

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Another interesting fact: According to the 2000 U.S. Census, the U.S. is 75% white and 12% black.

Link - http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/c2kprof00-us.pdf

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And what are the murder rate statistics by race of offender?

[John Kilduff]

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Tomorrow night, Texas is going to execute Kenneth Foster. Even proponents of the death penalty might find this particular case to be in clear violation of civil rights. Texas has a barbaric "law of parties" which states that even accomplices to a murder can be sentenced to death. In Kenneth's case, he was sitting in a car when his buddy, who had just gotten out of the car, shot and killed a man upon thinking the man had a gun. The shooter was put to death last year. Kenneth gets the injection tomorrow night for being in the driver's seat. He is, of course, African-American.

This CourtTVnews.com article covers the situation quite thoroughly. I posted this thread since this story hasn't gained much national attention, but is still quite interesting IMO.

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Another immoral law (as are most laws).

[Max Raker]

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The difference I see is the amount of time. Once the armed robber leaves the building and is picked up later no one is under duress.

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Ah, so the fact that he put a gun to someone's head, and threatened to kill them (thus forfeiting his life as in my first scenerio), is mitigated by time and circumstance.

Yeah, I think you need to clarify your position.

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Ok wait. So some dude robs you at gunpoint, you give him your money as you are unarmed and scared of getting killed. You find out later who it is. You think you should be able to find him and execute him? That is just murder imo.

Legally, the difference has to do with whether it was reasonable for the victim to fear bodily harm at the time the assailant was killed. You don't really seem to care about the law though so this might not matter.

[odellthurman]

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Interesting factoid:

Of those executed, 626 (58%) were white and 372 (34%) were black.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another interesting fact: According to the 2000 U.S. Census, the U.S. is 75% white and 12% black.

Link - http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/c2kprof00-us.pdf

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So, uh, does that mean that you think execution numbers should be 75% white and 12% black, or what? Because that wouldn't make much sense at all, since, you know, the crimes people are convicted of kinda matter too.

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It doesn't mean I think anything other than I think it's interesting.

[adios]

Thanks for the link to the article. I have no sympathy for this guy to be honest. I'm opposed to the death penalty btw. I have no problem with putting this guy in jail and locking him up for the rest of his life. This guy is just as accountable as the guy who pulled the trigger. He was an accomplis in putting people in harms way and should be accountable for the consequences of doing that. Furthermore he helped that guy who pulled the trigger escape from the scene of the crime. Basically that says he had no problem with the murder. Oh well he did in Texas. He made choices all along the way that led to his execution, choices he wasn't forced to make.

[John Kilduff]

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Thanks for the link to the article. I have no sympathy for this guy to be honest. I'm opposed to the death penalty btw. I have no problem with putting this guy in jail and locking him up for the rest of his life. This guy is just as accountable as the guy who pulled the trigger. He was an accomplis in putting people in harms way and should be accountable for the consequences of doing that. Furthermore he helped that guy who pulled the trigger escape from the scene of the crime. Basically that says he had no problem with the murder. Oh well he did in Texas. He made choices all along the way that led to his execution, choices he wasn't forced to make.

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I don't think sympathy for the accused really impacts on fairness one way or another.

The biggest problem I see with the "parties law" is when something like the following might occur (random hypothetical dreamt up to illustrate a point):

two guys decide to go out shoplifting. They split up inside a department store and do their thing, planning to meet outside later with their haul. While one guy is stuffing a TV box with packaged razor blades and various small items, the other guy on the other side of the store gets accosted by an undercover store security person. He is not too far from the back exit and being much bigger than the security person, decides to clobber the security detail person and run out the back. He does punch him hard in the jaw and runs out. The security person suffers a severe concussion and later dies in the hospital. Is the other shoplifter also equally responsible, and should he be punished equally? IMO the fair answer is no to both questions. Yet they were both parties to the commission of a felony which had an unexpected turn of events and tragic ending, so according to the parties law the second shoplifter is also equally guilty of third-degree murder or aggravated manslaughter or whatever?

What if instead it was a white-collar crime and the two guys are driving to mail a bogus bank check and the car hits a kid who ran out into the roadway and the jury decides the driver had ample time to react but didn't react properly; now this involves an unexpected manslaughter traffic fatality: is the conspiring partner sitting in the passenger seat equally guilty of manslaughter? If I understand the "parties law" correctly I guess he is. Or what if it were a less clear-cut white-collar crime and something odd happens and...???

Thanks for reading and all responses welcome. I'll note that I haven't actually read up on the "parties law" but if it implies what I think it probably does, such as in the above examples, then I think it is seriously flawed. I think there is also some federal statute along similar lines, maybe RICO-related (and RICO is another flawed and excessive law, which grants undue authority and power to the federal government IMO, but that's another discussion).

[morphball]

Kenneth Foster was spared by the governor.