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#171
10-31-2007, 06:00 PM
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Re: Yanks offer job to Girardi
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You can make up all sorts of "reasons" for a manager's "success" when his team is good, just like you can make up "reasons" for a manager's "failure". [/ QUOTE ] If you give two coaches the same team Yankee team over a 10 year span..96-06 and they both make the same game calls/moves etc. The only difference is one has Bobby Knight/Tom Coughlin's personality and the other has Joe Torre's personality. Will the results most likely be the same over a 5-10 year span? Will both managers most likely survive and still be managing the team in year 07? You can't prove one or the other to be better as absolute fact but you can assume that the one with BK/TC personality will be less likely to survive longterm in part because their personality will create more conflicts/crisis/problems than the other one. [/ QUOTE ] prove it. the reason why managers get hired and fired is arbitrary and often asinine. and everything that happens on a baseball field can be made into a statistic of some sort. teams that a supposedly good manager manages should do better than either a: their pythagorean record or b: their PECOTA projections. neither occured. joe torre does not have a magic ability to win baseball games. he is good with the press and he seems to be to be a very good human being. earl weaver was a degenerate, abrasive scumbag. both of them won. 
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#172
10-31-2007, 06:15 PM
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Re: Yanks offer job to Girardi
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You can make up all sorts of "reasons" for a manager's "success" when his team is good, just like you can make up "reasons" for a manager's "failure". [/ QUOTE ] If you give two coaches the same team Yankee team over a 10 year span..96-06 and they both make the same game calls/moves etc. The only difference is one has Bobby Knight/Tom Coughlin's personality and the other has Joe Torre's personality. Will the results most likely be the same over a 5-10 year span? Will both managers most likely survive and still be managing the team in year 07? You can't prove one or the other to be better as absolute fact but you can assume that the one with BK/TC personality will be less likely to survive longterm in part because their personality will create more conflicts/crisis/problems than the other one. [/ QUOTE ] prove it. the reason why managers get hired and fired is arbitrary and often asinine. and everything that happens on a baseball field can be made into a statistic of some sort. teams that a supposedly good manager manages should do better than either a: their pythagorean record or b: their PECOTA projections. neither occured. joe torre does not have a magic ability to win baseball games. he is good with the press and he seems to be to be a very good human being. earl weaver was a degenerate, abrasive scumbag. both of them won. [/ QUOTE ] Ok hire Tony Larussa and see if he can last 10 years before quitting. I'll bet you $1 he can't.
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#173
10-31-2007, 06:24 PM
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Re: Yanks offer job to Girardi
... So if he does the exact same job as Torre over 5 years, you're proven right?
rofl. It doesn't matter if the Yankees need one new manager every two years. What Torre did is insanely replaceable. I'm sure making the playoffs every year and getting more credit than you deserve is SOOOOOO hard. Sign me up.
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#174
10-31-2007, 06:35 PM
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Re: Yanks offer job to Girardi
[ QUOTE ]
... So if he does the exact same job as Torre over 5 years, you're proven right? rofl. It doesn't matter if the Yankees need one new manager every two years. What Torre did is insanely replaceable. I'm sure making the playoffs every year and getting more credit than you deserve is SOOOOOO hard. Sign me up. [/ QUOTE ] it does matter in terms of consistency. I don't think NYY wins the division every year and wins 4 WS, gets to 2 others over 10 years if they are hiring a new manager every year. The question had nothing to do with Torre being replaceable. It was simply that Torre's personality and ability to handle media/clubhouse/FO is what made him valuable as a manager to the Yankees. You argued that he had no value as a manager for the Yanks because he cost them wins/runs/etc with his game moves and everything else he did was meaningless.
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#175
10-31-2007, 06:39 PM
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Re: Yanks offer job to Girardi
The playoffs are a toss-up so that's irrelevant.
Doesn't matter if they win the division as long as they make the playoffs. Not goign to bother looking up the cushion they made the playoffs as, as I'm quite lazy, but I'm sure it was a lot and I'm sure the only way for them not to would be for Joe Torre to be worth 3-5+ wins to the Yankees, i.e. a league-average baseball player or better. The answer to that is no. The whole notion of "omg you need good personality traits to make it in NY and deal with the pressure" is just laughable on the face of everything we know about sports, really.
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#176
10-31-2007, 06:40 PM
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Re: Yanks offer job to Girardi
I'd think Torre's relationship with the players had very real implications on whether certain players sign and resign with the Yanks. That reputation goes a long way towards bringing back Rocket, Petite etc.
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#178
10-31-2007, 06:48 PM
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Re: Yanks offer job to Girardi
[ QUOTE ]
The playoffs are a toss-up so that's irrelevant. Doesn't matter if they win the division as long as they make the playoffs. Not goign to bother looking up the cushion they made the playoffs as, as I'm quite lazy, but I'm sure it was a lot and I'm sure the only way for them not to would be for Joe Torre to be worth 3-5+ wins to the Yankees, i.e. a league-average baseball player or better. The answer to that is no. The whole notion of "omg you need good personality traits to make it in NY and deal with the pressure" is just laughable on the face of everything we know about sports, really. [/ QUOTE ] lol playoffs still count. if anything thats where Torre's personality/relationship with players/ability to keep team focused blah blah blah would have more influence then less given the few number of games involved and the Do or Die nature of playoffs in sports
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#179
10-31-2007, 06:50 PM
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Re: Yanks offer job to Girardi
Actually playoffs are pretty much random. You can help your cause by being the Red Sox and raping the Secret Sauce, but it's more random than not. Sorry.
The Braves only winning one championship during their ridiculous division run was actually statistically probable. That's how random it is. Get over it.
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#180
10-31-2007, 06:56 PM
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Re: Yanks offer job to Girardi
[ QUOTE ]
Actually playoffs are pretty much random. You can help your cause by being the Red Sox and raping the Secret Sauce, but it's more random than not. Sorry. The Braves only winning one championship during their ridiculous division run was actually statistically probable. That's how random it is. Get over it. [/ QUOTE ] The manager of a team is the key reason why a team does or does not advance in the playoffs.
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