Ftp stole my money

[frommagio]

[ QUOTE ]

1. Why did it take from Sept 7th until Nov 2nd (it wasn't 2.5 months as previously thrown around, it was under 2 months) to complete this investigation?
-Credit card fraud and chip dumping can take a long time to verify. We take locking accounts and seizing funds very seriously, and we don't want to come to any snap decisions. That being said, 2 months is still way too long, and our customer support needs better information along the way of an investigation to respond in a timely manner to questions the investigated player may have. We're definitely striving to improve in this area, and with the recent explosion of players we've experienced, growing pains like this are an unfortunate inevitability.

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Hey Doug - he's measuring from 9/7 to now, apparently the first time any info has been available from your end. So the 2.5 month estimate is actually a bit low, if anything.

I give you all the credit in the world for hunting down fraud, but FT's lack of transparency and accountability is simply unacceptable. There's no chance that I would deposit at FT until you become serious about customers' rights.

From time to time, audits and account suspensions will become necessary in the course of normal events. You guys don't seem to recognize the serious nature of the situation from the customer's viewpoint. Not everybody is a thief; we insist that the rights of the accused be respected because any of us could be accused falsely - it's in all of our interest. Without integrity, you have nothing.

I think you need a Customer's Bill of Rights, and a corporate reorientation towards accountability.

[Synergistic Explosions]

Gee Doug, how surprising. Usually the guy who makes his first post here to warn us how a site stole his money is so credible.

I don't know whats worse, that players are so gullible they want to believe strangers who feed them a line of bull. Or that players want to believe that the major sites would unjustly steal from their players to pad a few bucks onto the hundreds of millions they already make.

DO NOT GIVE FIRST TIME POSTERS WHO WHINE THE TIME OF DAY!

[suzzer99]

Well that is interesting. Thanks Doug. Yes you guys should be more forthright about these things. But if you eventually get it right, that is a lot better than never.

Is there anyway you can get a little more detailed on the chip dumping? Was this determined by looking at the HHs to see obvious shady play? Or did all these fraudulent accounts only exist to lose money to eric? Either of those would be pretty damning I think. But if there is no obvious bad play in the HHs, or if no one checked the HHs, and these accounts lost money to a number of people besides eric, then I think he may still have a case to claim he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I feel like I'm almost there in terms of being convinced, and a large portion of the burden of proof has now been shifted from you to eric. But it would be nice to know just a little more about how you *know* these accounts were chip dumping to eric. I'm pretty sure this can be explained in a little detail w/o giving away some sort of advantage to potential fraudsters. So please don't try to hide behind the "bot-police" veil of secrecy.

[mjkidd]

Doug -- what happens to the money that Eric won from the players who were not guilty of any fraud? Does FTP just keep that 6k? I guess that would be OK, since you wouldn't have taken away the money from legitimate players if they had won the money dumped to Eric.

[chube]

[ QUOTE ]
Hopefully it doesn't take another month for Ftpdoug to find out exactly what I did,

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I read this entire thread and it is this quote, and similar one's, that caught my attention. To me, it nearly translates to "to find out how I got caught." An innocent person would take the line, "to find out what they are accusing me of, so I can refute it." Semantics, I know, but that is what keeps jumping out at me.

[mjkidd]

Damn. We were all played by this Eric clown. He only wanted to figure out how FTP caught him, and badmouth the site.

I am such a sucker.

[Bicycles_Biatch]

Furthermore... this example illustrates how Full-Tilt Poker may be ENCOURAGING cheating... follow me here for a minute

I finance my account through a fraud credit card and dump to my friend... my friend can play gorilla poker with no risk (it's not really his money and apparently FTP doesn't care what he doesn until he tries to empty the account).

If he loses... great...

If he wins, and snaps off legit players for real money, he cashes out.

Now FTP freezes his account and keeps the money for themselves. The money doesn't get credited back to the losing player (the real ones)... and FTP doesn't have to refund the credit card companies (that is all covered by the cc companies under the fraud protection act).

This is a really CRAPPY way of doing business.

[MicroBob]

He's really just trying to say something like, "find out what it was I supposedly did" or something like that.

I don't think this semantical stuff shows much about his guilt one way or another.

FTPDoug's proof and timeline of events obviously does though.

[leegizzer1]

what a joke....how can anyone possibly side with eric at all....lol....anyone whos dumb enough to do a single cashout of 14k after 4 hrs of play and expects a fast easy withdrawal deserves what happens to them

[suzzer99]

[ QUOTE ]
Gee Doug, how surprising. Usually the guy who makes his first post here to warn us how a site stole his money is so credible.

I don't know whats worse, that players are so gullible they want to believe strangers who feed them a line of bull. Or that players want to believe that the major sites would unjustly steal from their players to pad a few bucks onto the hundreds of millions they already make.

DO NOT GIVE FIRST TIME POSTERS WHO WHINE THE TIME OF DAY!

[/ QUOTE ]

He still served a valid purpose in showing that FT's time to conduct their investigation, communication during the investigation, and final explanation of the outcome (shoild the "convicted" demand one) are all unacceptable. Just because this guy probably was guilty doesn't mean we all don't deserve some kind of right to reasonably speedy due process, if god forbid we somehow trigger fraud alarms at FTP. It looks like that message has gotten through to FTP somewhat from this incident, which is good.