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| View Poll Results: Will Philly turn it around and grab a wildcard? | |||
| Yes |
   
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22 | 41.51% |
| Probably Not |
  
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14 | 26.42% |
| No |
  
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9 | 16.98% |
| They will blow it on the last play of the season in true Philly style |
  
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8 | 15.09% |
| Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#171
10-24-2007, 09:51 PM
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Re: Universal Healthcare? Can it work? I\'m doubtful...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Which means paying them enough to want to do it... [/ QUOTE ] And here lies the rub. [/ QUOTE ] QFT. Obviously whomever wrote that has zero experience with dealing with government contracts. The only government agency that pays anywhere near Fair Market for any service is the DOD, and occasionally they go far overboard. [/ QUOTE ] QFT, yesterday I was at a Career Fair for building construction here at UF and one of the companies I was interested in specialized in Govt. projects. The girl that was interviewing me was bragging about how their company doesn't ever have to worry about downturns in the market because at the end of the fiscal year the government "has millions of dollars left that they haven't spent so they need to spend or else they have to give it back (whatever that means)." So they end up getting contracted to build [censored] that doesn't need to be built just for the hell of it. 
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#172
10-24-2007, 09:57 PM
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Re: Universal Healthcare? Can it work? I\'m doubtful...
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Your government already spends more per capita on health than any other country in the world. Then private individuals spend as much again. The resulting health care system is ranked 37th in the world according by WHO. Something is very wrong here. [/ QUOTE ] This statement is a strike against a universal healthcare system... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I love this reasoning. US ranks 37th behind mostly national systems, which are all cheaper by far than the US system. So this says what to you? That a national system is far worse than the current system ... with no further data or rationale necessary. I really don't know what to think on health care yet, but I know that simpletons like you only muddle up the debate more than they shed light. [/ QUOTE ] Cheaper to who? Certainly not cheaper to the taxpayers who have to provide the "free" health care.
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#173
10-24-2007, 10:04 PM
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Re: Universal Healthcare? Can it work? I\'m doubtful...
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You can shift it or mask it but you can't remove it: If you claim you have a right to health care, you wish to force someone to provide it for you. [/ QUOTE ] This is why use of analogies so frequently becomes necessary. Most of the statists in this forum take every opportunity to obfuscate, shift, mask, and gloss over acts that would be universally considered thuggery if anyone except a government agent were to perform them. This makes honest debate impossible. For that matter, the word "progressive" is one big giant meaningless obfuscatory term. In a related note, THIS is what a CONSISTENT MORAL ETHIC looks like: LYING is ALWAYS wrong, for ALL people in ALL times. There are no net losers or beneficiaries. It is completely equitable for everyone. It doesn't ever change based on any factor. It is not subject to anyone's arbitrary whims (not even OneOuter's).
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#174
10-24-2007, 10:12 PM
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Re: Universal Healthcare? Can it work? I\'m doubtful...
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We all have a responsibility to each other. That has nothing to do with slavery. [/ QUOTE ] Wow, I missed this earlier. UP IS DOWN!
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#175
10-24-2007, 10:18 PM
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Re: Universal Healthcare? Can it work? I\'m doubtful...
[ QUOTE ]
This is why use of analogies so frequently becomes necessary. Most of the statists in this forum take every opportunity to obfuscate, shift, mask, and gloss over acts that would be universally considered thuggery if anyone except a government agent were to perform them. This makes honest debate impossible. [/ QUOTE ] Whaddya know! There is a big fat example of it right here: [ QUOTE ] It is a literal fact that no other developed nation on earth is stupid enough to deprive millions of their own citizens of health care. [/ QUOTE ] NOT stealing from some people to give to other people is unjustly DEPRIVING the potential receivers. Deprive: To take something away from. Not stealing is stealing! Black is white! Up is down!
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#176
10-24-2007, 10:34 PM
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Re: Universal Healthcare? Can it work? I\'m doubtful...
Borodog post from another thread:
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] How about you tell us why we shouldn't force you to? [/ QUOTE ] I wish all statists were as honest as adanthar. He doesn't care what you think. He knows better, and he's all for forcing you to comply with him. I can at least respect the honesty of the nakedly violent statist. It's the ones who hide their violent intentions in the trappings of "tacit consent" and other Orwellian bull [censored] that bother me. Sure, war is peace, freedom is slavery and slavery is freedom, voluntary is involuntary and involuntary is voluntary, everyone has a right to everyone else's property but nobody has a right to their own. Those are the real psychopaths. [/ QUOTE ]
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#177
10-24-2007, 11:10 PM
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Re: Universal Healthcare? Can it work? I\'m doubtful...
Did the opposition go to sleep, or are they just fed up with this discussion? I am very interested in this topic. Being a conservative I like hearing what "progressives" have to say to these arguments.
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#178
10-24-2007, 11:21 PM
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Re: Universal Healthcare? Can it work? I\'m doubtful...
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Did the opposition go to sleep, or are they just fed up with this discussion? I am very interested in this topic. Being a conservative I like hearing what "progressives" have to say to these arguments. [/ QUOTE ] The socialists have reverted to newspeak. Then they retired for the evening. [ QUOTE ] "Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious." [/ QUOTE ] George Orwell 1984
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#179
10-24-2007, 11:32 PM
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Re: Universal Healthcare? Can it work? I\'m doubtful...
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Doctors and other caregivers are under no obligation whasoever to provide care. Doctors can quit their jobs and do something else. However, if you're employed as a doctor you are obligated to perform your duties as your employer sees fit and within the law. [/ QUOTE ] Which requires them to provide care. But if they don't like it, hey they can just quit and be waiters or automechanics or something. [ QUOTE ] No doctor or nurse or whatever is enslaved by a health care entitlement. [/ QUOTE ] There's that phrase again. You believe you own the labor of other human beings. I find this morally repugnant and despicable, not to mention the fact that the eventual economic consequences for the people you claim to want to help are catastrophic. [ QUOTE ] The government should be obligated to do what it has to to provide care for the people. [/ QUOTE ] The best way to provide care for the people is to let the market operate. [ QUOTE ] Which means paying them enough to want to do it... Which is the EXACT [censored] OPPOSITE OF SLAVERY. [/ QUOTE ] Oh, and where does the money come form to pay the doctors? Let me guess: from the labor of other people.
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#180
10-25-2007, 12:01 AM
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Re: Universal Healthcare? Can it work? I\'m doubtful...
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Health care is a basic human right. As such, everyone is entitled to care. [/ QUOTE ] So you're in favor of slavery? Also, has it *always* been a basic human right? Or is this a recent development? [/ QUOTE ] If you equate making sure that health care is available to slavery, then yes. If you're not retarded, then no. [/ QUOTE ] How do we know which people are obligated to become doctors? Oh btw your solution is stop paying doctors for their services, since you're already entitled to them. [/ QUOTE ] /ignore. [/ QUOTE ] Wow, you're gonna have this entire forum on ignore in no time with that kind of attitude.
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