**Official uNL Microbrew thread: September** - Page 170

whyzze · #**1691** 09-15-2007, 11:23 PM

40bb - 20bb
2 - 1

33% equity needed.

Student Caine · #**1692** 09-15-2007, 11:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not real sure where to post this question about equity and pot odds so I'll put it here.

Let's say you're closing the action in a hand. For simplicity's sake say your opponent bets 20BB into a 40BB pot on the river. The pot is now 60BB and you're deciding whether to call or fold getting 3:1 odds. Since you're closing the action, do you include the price of your call in the total pot size when estimating equity? (60BB+20BB=80BB/20BB ==> 4:1 ==> >20% equity = +EV)

[/ QUOTE ]

You would not count your call on the river as part of what you "win" as it is not a bet gained. However, whatever you put in on previous streets (20BB if this is HU all the way) is part of what you "win" as the river action is concerned.

squashington · #**1693** 09-15-2007, 11:29 PM

isn't it 60BB-20BB? the pot was 40 before the river and opp. bets 20.

Student Caine · #**1694** 09-15-2007, 11:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
40bb - 20bb
2 - 1

33% equity needed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Err, I am missing something here.

Current pot is 40BB, Villain bets 20BB making it a 60BB pot. We must risk 20BB to win 60BB, so it is actually 3:1, correct?

shoxbb6 · #**1695** 09-15-2007, 11:30 PM

3:1 is 25% equity, you don't include the size of your bet in the call, only the size of the pot in relation to how much you have to call.

whyzze · #**1696** 09-15-2007, 11:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
isn't it 60BB-20BB? the pot was 40 before the river and opp. bets 20.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes...then its 3-1...which means you only have to be good 25% of the time.

neverforgetlol · #**1697** 09-15-2007, 11:51 PM

I've been losing buyins, I think 12 now, I can't win a goddamn [censored] pot I'm about to go postal on someone. Pretty much all suckouts or coolers. I want to quit poker (again). Here's tonight (some are close but absolutely nothing went my way):

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($43.40)
Hero ($48)
BB ($67.90)
UTG ($45.75)
MP ($61.85)
CO ($57.15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $2, CO calls $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $8.5, 1 fold, MP raises to $61.85, CO folds, Hero calls $39.50 (All-In).

Flop: ($98.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($98.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($98.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $98.50

Results in white below: 
Hero has Jh Jc (two pair, queens and jacks).
MP has Kd Kc (full house, kings full of queens).
Outcome: MP wins $112.35. 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($50)
Button ($110.40)
SB ($68.20)
BB ($14.25)
UTG ($138.70)
MP ($213)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.5, Button calls $2.50, SB raises to $7, 1 fold, MP folds, Hero raises to $50, Button folds, SB calls $43.

Flop: ($103.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: ($103.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: ($103.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $103.50

Results in white below: 
SB has As Ac (two pair, aces and threes).
Hero has Ks Kh (two pair, kings and threes).
Outcome: SB wins $103.50. 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($55.45)
BB ($45.70)
UTG ($68.70)
MP ($29.25)
CO ($138.70)
Button ($221)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button raises to $2, Hero raises to $7.5, BB calls $7, Button calls $5.50.

Flop: ($22.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $17.5, BB raises to $38.2, Button folds, Hero calls $20.70.

Turn: ($98.90) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: ($98.90) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $98.90

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ad As (two pair, aces and fours).
BB has 7s Js (flush, king high).
Outcome: BB wins $98.90. 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($105.70)
UTG ($49.25)
MP ($77.20)
CO ($53.15)
Button ($53.20)
Hero ($50.70)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.5, 1 fold, Button calls $2.

Flop: ($5.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $3.5, Button raises to $12, Hero raises to $48.2, Button calls $36.20.

Turn: ($101.90) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: ($101.90) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $101.90

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ks Qs (high card, king).
Button has Qc Qd (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Button wins $101.90. 

TURN AND RIVER: ANNIHILATE

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($71.75)
MP ($66.50)
Button ($32.40)
SB ($51.95)
Hero ($52.25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($2) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.5, MP raises to $6, Button folds, SB folds, Hero raises to $22, MP calls $16.

Turn: ($46) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks.

River: ($46) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $16, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $46

Results in white below: 
MP doesn't show.
Outcome: MP wins $46.

Mr_Pathetic · #**1698** 09-15-2007, 11:56 PM

I was in your shoes after losing 8 buyins other day and when I felt like throwing stuff when I lost I quit for a day and came back refreshed after a 24 hour off period. I was beyond tilted. I came back after my time away with a much clearer head and it has worked wonders so far. I got sucked out on three times today but I didn't even care. I played damn good and thats all that matters.

bknollenberg · #**1699** 09-16-2007, 03:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thought I'd share this winner. Yeah, I dunno why I didn't just shove.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($24.05)
CO ($22)
Button ($24.65)
SB ($68.15)
BB ($9.15)
UTG ($17.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.25, 2 folds, SB raises to $2.25, 1 fold, UTG folds, Hero calls $1.

Flop: ($5) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $1.75, Hero calls $1.75.

Turn: ($8.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $3.5, Hero calls $3.50.

River: ($15.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, SB calls $10.

Final Pot: $35.50

SB has Ts Qc (high card, king).
Hero has Ks Jd (flush, king high).
Outcome: Hero wins $35.50.

[/ QUOTE ]
maybe this is a little picky, and i'm assuming you had a read on this stellar player, but what are you doing calling with KJos here?

bknollenberg · #**1700** 09-16-2007, 03:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I've been losing buyins, I think 12 now, I can't win a goddamn [censored] pot I'm about to go postal on someone. Pretty much all suckouts or coolers. I want to quit poker (again). Here's tonight (some are close but absolutely nothing went my way):

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($43.40)
Hero ($48)
BB ($67.90)
UTG ($45.75)
MP ($61.85)
CO ($57.15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $2, CO calls $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $8.5, 1 fold, MP raises to $61.85, CO folds, Hero calls $39.50 (All-In).

Flop: ($98.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($98.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($98.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $98.50

Results in white below: 
Hero has Jh Jc (two pair, queens and jacks).
MP has Kd Kc (full house, kings full of queens).
Outcome: MP wins $112.35. 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($50)
Button ($110.40)
SB ($68.20)
BB ($14.25)
UTG ($138.70)
MP ($213)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.5, Button calls $2.50, SB raises to $7, 1 fold, MP folds, Hero raises to $50, Button folds, SB calls $43.

Flop: ($103.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: ($103.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: ($103.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $103.50

Results in white below: 
SB has As Ac (two pair, aces and threes).
Hero has Ks Kh (two pair, kings and threes).
Outcome: SB wins $103.50. 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($55.45)
BB ($45.70)
UTG ($68.70)
MP ($29.25)
CO ($138.70)
Button ($221)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button raises to $2, Hero raises to $7.5, BB calls $7, Button calls $5.50.

Flop: ($22.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $17.5, BB raises to $38.2, Button folds, Hero calls $20.70.

Turn: ($98.90) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: ($98.90) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $98.90

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ad As (two pair, aces and fours).
BB has 7s Js (flush, king high).
Outcome: BB wins $98.90. 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($105.70)
UTG ($49.25)
MP ($77.20)
CO ($53.15)
Button ($53.20)
Hero ($50.70)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.5, 1 fold, Button calls $2.

Flop: ($5.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $3.5, Button raises to $12, Hero raises to $48.2, Button calls $36.20.

Turn: ($101.90) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: ($101.90) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $101.90

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ks Qs (high card, king).
Button has Qc Qd (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Button wins $101.90. 

TURN AND RIVER: ANNIHILATE

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($71.75)
MP ($66.50)
Button ($32.40)
SB ($51.95)
Hero ($52.25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($2) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.5, MP raises to $6, Button folds, SB folds, Hero raises to $22, MP calls $16.

Turn: ($46) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks.

River: ($46) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $16, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $46

Results in white below: 
MP doesn't show.
Outcome: MP wins $46. 

[/ QUOTE ]
you clearly need to take a break from poker if you're making some of those plays. the AA is standard, as is the KK, but i think you can easily muck the JJ and i think the KQ hand speaks for itself.