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#161
11-09-2007, 04:48 PM
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Re: Actions Are Louder Than Words....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Being very hold-em oriented, and this being a political board that I unconciously disassociated with poker, I had always read "PLO" as Palestine Lib Org until a couple of months ago. Having read his posts in that context I never noticed anything inconsistent with that reading of his nick. So, while it may have been unintentional, the shoe fits. [/ QUOTE ] ok, like what? give me an example or two. maybe I need to rethink some things. I mean, I'm the one saying it's wrong to machine gun people in lifeboats ... [/ QUOTE ] Dude...Are you like f*cking insane or something? Why are you answering the question with ridiculous statements? It's like you're a crazy person. Are you a supporter of the PLO, the palestinian org? Or do you love Pot limit omaha? It's pretty obvious how one could be confused about this, why don't you just tell us? 
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#162
11-09-2007, 04:57 PM
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Re: Actions Are Louder Than Words....
[ QUOTE ]
Dude...Are you like f*cking insane or something? Why are you answering the question with ridiculous statements? It's like you're a crazy person. Are you a supporter of the PLO, the palestinian org? Or do you love Pot limit omaha? It's pretty obvious how one could be confused about this, why don't you just tell us? [/ QUOTE ] what, you only read replies to your own posts or something? fwiw the only thing Iknow about the PLO is that yassir arafat was a billionaire or someting and the palestinians lived in poverty. in other words, typical political b.s. and arafat was undoubtably very friendly to israel under the table or they would've wacked him. not sure what's going on there now, although I'm sure it's the same b.s. [ QUOTE ] 03:42 PM Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote Quick Reply Quick Reply Quote: I'm pro-Israel. I don't hide my beliefs. I'm proud and confident of my beliefs. But when I ask you if you are pro-PLO, you evade the question...... This speaks volumes about you..... I'm an american. I would prefer the traditional american view where we stay out of other countries deals, including israel and the arabs. [/ QUOTE ]
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#163
11-09-2007, 05:28 PM
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Re: Actions Are Louder Than Words....
First off, what you said earlier didn't answer the question. I'm an American too, and I support staying out of others business, but I still think the Palestinians are in the right.
(You still havn't directly answered the question, but I'll just assume you're a pot limit omaha player)
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#164
11-09-2007, 06:57 PM
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Re: Actions Are Louder Than Words....
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First off, what you said earlier didn't answer the question. I'm an American too, and I support staying out of others business, but I still think the Palestinians are in the right. [/ QUOTE ] why is it any of your business? do you have an opinion on eretrians and whether they were wronged?
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#165
11-09-2007, 08:09 PM
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Re: Yeah....EVERYONE Believes the Attack was Intentional
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The evidence was clear. Both Adm. Kidd and I believed with certainty that this attack, which killed 34 American sailors and injured 172 others, was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew. I am certain that the Israeli pilots that undertook the attack, as well as their superiors who had ordered the attack, were aware that the ship was American. [/ QUOTE ] Feelings are not facts......they can't read the minds of the Israeli pilots. Israel communicated to the USA that they would take all steps to defend their coast included sinking unidentified ships. The ask the USA to either: 1. Keep all American ships out of the area or 2. To notify Israel if the USA sent ships into the area. ***The USA notified Israel they had no ships in the area. The US Naval command ordered the Liberty to leave the area. The captain did not comply with this order.... [ QUOTE ] I saw our flag, which had visibly identified the ship as American, riddled with bullet holes, [/ QUOTE ] The fact that an American sailor saw their own flag on their ship is not relevent. What COULD be relevent was if the Israelis saw this flag. But again this is moot given the false flag tactic and the American communications that they had no ships in the area. [ QUOTE ] Not only did the Israelis attack the ship for over two hours with napalm, gunfire and hundreds of rockets and missiles, Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned three life boats that had been launched in an attempt to save the crew – a war crime. [/ QUOTE ] Standard WW2 tactics by the US Navy against the Japs. Against the Germans, there was more mercy shown. The difference is the Japs fought dirty and maltreated US prisoners. The Egyptions were more Jap-like in their methods so I'm not surprised they were getting machined-gunned in their life boats. [ QUOTE ] I have firsthand knowledge from many personal conversations with Admiral Kidd that President Lyndon Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara personally ordered him to cover up the true facts and conclude the attack was a case of mistaken identity despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary." [/ QUOTE ] I've seen no persuasive evidence.... As for a cover up, this was a smart tactic because LBJ would look like a complete jackass sending a ship into a warzone without notifying the Israelis first...even though the Liberty was at fault for not obeying the order to stay 100 miles away. LBJ did not want any political fallout even if it wasn't his fault... [ QUOTE ] He did not mention that LBJ also rescinded an order to send carrier-based fighter planes that were only 15 minutes away to defend the Liberty. [/ QUOTE ] Send planes to attack an ally because of the USS Liberty's screwup? Yeah...this is real smart. Everytime I ask for evidence....you can't provide anything relevent.
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#166
11-09-2007, 08:14 PM
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Re: Actions Are Louder Than Words....
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why is it any of your business? do you have an opinion on eretrians and whether they were wronged? [/ QUOTE ] This is the politics forum. People talk politics. Knowing if a person has a vested interest in a subject is sometimes part of the discussion. Perhaps you might have an Arab background and you fear if you reveal this information it would take away from your credibility.... You should have more confidence in yourself and your arguments...
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#167
11-09-2007, 08:43 PM
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Re: Yeah....EVERYONE Believes the Attack was Intentional
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***The USA notified Israel they had no ships in the area. The US Naval command ordered the Liberty to leave the area. The captain did not comply with this order.... [/ QUOTE ] source for this? [ QUOTE ] Send planes to attack an ally because of the USS Liberty's screwup? Yeah...this is real smart. [/ QUOTE ] that's the difference. i'm american and support american troops, and u don't. yes, blow the "allied" attacking forces to hell, every time. you know, btw, i don't accuse u guys of being modern day pollards, if you're not US I don't even mind u saying to hell with americans, israel first and last. but if you're an american then i do.
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#168
11-09-2007, 08:54 PM
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Re: Yeah....EVERYONE Believes the Attack was Intentional
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Everytime I ask for evidence....you can't provide anything relevent. [/ QUOTE ] you're the 1 who disputed the claim that the naval hearing was rigged and wouldn't look up a 2nd source, so i did it 4 u. the prosecutor or whatever who found liberty at fault in naval hearing did so only because he was ordered to. that's the point. you used that naval hearing 2 support your point and i have shown that it doesn't. [ QUOTE ] Quote: Quote: read the link and google the naval officer prosecutor guys name. he's gone public he should be on a lot of websites. So you want me to do YOUR research for you.... Hmmmmmm....I'll think I'll take a pass on this one. Besides, there is probably no reliable sources that can back your silly claim. One could search for years for what doesn't exist.... I gave you a chance then did quick 30 second google and posted it for you. Quote: #12873716 - 11/08/07 11:21 PM Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote Quick Reply Quick Reply http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...5/194813.shtml Quote: The most stunning revelation was a statement by Capt. Ward Boston, the senior legal counsel for the Navy's Court of Inquiry into the attack on the Liberty. His statement was read by Rear Adm. Merlin Staring, a former judge advocate general of the Navy. Following are portions of what he read. The late Admiral Isaac Kidd and I were given only one week to gather evidence for the Navy's official investigation. Despite the short amount of time we were given, we gathered a vast amount of evidence, including hours of heartbreaking testimony from the young survivors. The evidence was clear. Both Adm. Kidd and I believed with certainty that this attack, which killed 34 American sailors and injured 172 others, was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew. I am certain that the Israeli pilots that undertook the attack, as well as their superiors who had ordered the attack, were aware that the ship was American. I saw our flag, which had visibly identified the ship as American, riddled with bullet holes, and heard testimony that made it clear that the Israelis intended that there be no survivors. Not only did the Israelis attack the ship for over two hours with napalm, gunfire and hundreds of rockets and missiles, Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned three life boats that had been launched in an attempt to save the crew – a war crime. After saying he was moved to speak out by a book titled "The Liberty Incident" by Jay Cristol, he described it as an attempt to whitewash the facts. He then dropped a bombshell, saying, "I have firsthand knowledge from many personal conversations with Admiral Kidd that President Lyndon Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara personally ordered him to cover up the true facts and conclude the attack was a case of mistaken identity despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary." He did not mention that LBJ also rescinded an order to send carrier-based fighter planes that were only 15 minutes away to defend the Liberty. [/ QUOTE ]
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#169
11-10-2007, 12:14 AM
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The US Navy, State Dept, and the USS Liberty Captain Screwed-Up
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] ***The USA notified Israel they had no ships in the area. The US Naval command ordered the Liberty to leave the area. The captain did not comply with this order.... [/ QUOTE ] source for this? [/ QUOTE ] The wiki article... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident A. The U.S. said it did not, and United States Ambassador Goldberg announced in the United Nations that the U.S. had no ships within 350 miles (560 km) to 400 miles (640 km), [5] B. On June 5, at the start of the war, General Yitzhak Rabin (then IDF Chief of Staff) informed Commander Ernest Carl Castle, the American Naval Attache in Tel Aviv, that Israel would defend its coast with every means at its disposal, including sinking unidentified ships. [2] Gen. Rabin went on to advise that the Americans should either reveal which ships it had in the area, or remove them. Despite this, the United States did not give Israel any information about the Liberty, which was by now in the eastern Mediterranean. C. On the night of June 7 Washington time, early morning on June 8, 0110Z or 3:10 AM local time, the Pentagon issued an order to Sixth Fleet headquarters to tell the Liberty to come no closer than 100 nautical miles (185 km) to Israel, Syria, or the Sinai coast (Oren, p. 263). [8](pages 5 and Exhibit N, page 58). D. According to the U.S. Navy -- which had operational control over the ship -- an "immediate precedence" order to withdraw to 100 miles was broadcast at 01:10Zulu, or 3:10 AM local time, the night before the attack. The Navy agrees that this "immediate precedence" order from the Joint Chiefs of Staff was mis-routed through the Phillipines, but was still broadcast to the Sixth Fleet (the Liberty's operational command) at 06:37 -- 7 1/2 hours before the attack at 14:03. [10] (pages 24 - 25) [11](pages 5 and Exhibit N, page 58) Nevertheless, the Liberty did not obey those orders. The Navy Court of Inquiry reports many other messages were successfully broadcast and received to and from the Liberty in the 24 hours before the attack, including the Liberty's report of being overflown at 05:15Zulu. From this 05:15 Zulu report until 1525Zulu, the Liberty did not report any inability to receive incoming traffic from the Sixth Fleet. Hmmmmmmmmm.....interesting how the ussliberty.org site forgot to include this information on their site. Perhpas it was just an innocent oversight. Yes?
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#170
11-10-2007, 01:03 AM
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Re: The US Navy, State Dept, and the USS Liberty Captain Screwed-Up
[ QUOTE ]
Quote: Quote: ***The USA notified Israel they had no ships in the area. The US Naval command ordered the Liberty to leave the area. The captain did not comply with this order.... source for this? The wiki article... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident A. The U.S. said it did not, and United States Ambassador Goldberg announced in the United Nations that the U.S. had no ships within 350 miles (560 km) to 400 miles (640 km), [5] B. On June 5, at the start of the war, General Yitzhak Rabin (then IDF Chief of Staff) informed Commander Ernest Carl Castle, the American Naval Attache in Tel Aviv, that Israel would defend its coast with every means at its disposal, including sinking unidentified ships. [2] Gen. Rabin went on to advise that the Americans should either reveal which ships it had in the area, or remove them. Despite this, the United States did not give Israel any information about the Liberty, which was by now in the eastern Mediterranean. C. On the night of June 7 Washington time, early morning on June 8, 0110Z or 3:10 AM local time, the Pentagon issued an order to Sixth Fleet headquarters to tell the Liberty to come no closer than 100 nautical miles (185 km) to Israel, Syria, or the Sinai coast (Oren, p. 263). [8](pages 5 and Exhibit N, page 58). D. According to the U.S. Navy -- which had operational control over the ship -- an "immediate precedence" order to withdraw to 100 miles was broadcast at 01:10Zulu, or 3:10 AM local time, the night before the attack. The Navy agrees that this "immediate precedence" order from the Joint Chiefs of Staff was mis-routed through the Phillipines, but was still broadcast to the Sixth Fleet (the Liberty's operational command) at 06:37 -- 7 1/2 hours before the attack at 14:03. [10] (pages 24 - 25) [11](pages 5 and Exhibit N, page 58) Nevertheless, the Liberty did not obey those orders. The Navy Court of Inquiry reports many other messages were successfully broadcast and received to and from the Liberty in the 24 hours before the attack, including the Liberty's report of being overflown at 05:15Zulu. From this 05:15 Zulu report until 1525Zulu, the Liberty did not report any inability to receive incoming traffic from the Sixth Fleet. Hmmmmmmmmm.....interesting how the ussliberty.org site forgot to include this information on their site. Perhpas it was just an innocent oversight. Yes? [/ QUOTE ] not sure this is true or means what you think, and even if it does, it only matters if you take your position that israel has the authority to attack anyone anytime it wants to, even in international waters. not to mention your defense of machine gunning lifeboats.
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