Ken Miller: scientist and believeing Catholic

[bunny]

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perhaps life was already there, survived the event and the subtraction is completely irrelevant.)


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Could be. We can always speculate. They were speaking about the facts we know, however. And even if life was present earlier, there's still only about .7 billion years from the time of earth's formation to the first evidence of life. A minute amount of time for life to originate under any plausible scenario.

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But they at least implied that the facts we know include that life must have originated within 40 million years. It may be speculation, but my only point is that it is incorrect to postulate 40 million years as factual.

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Edit: Also, obviously, if life was present before 3.86 b then there's even less time from earth's formation for it to have originated.

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But more than 40 million years, which was there claimed timeframe.

[tpir]

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Thanks for the site!


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You're welcome.

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Awwww, how cute. You guys parted the Red Sea of atheist propaganda and Satanic practical jokes so that you could find the truth that you predetermined was true even before you set out looking for it!

Seriously though, would the God you describe really be proud of such an intellectually dishonest endeavor? If so, why did he give us intellects at all? Did Satan give us our intellects to make us fall into his trap? I am seriously asking, so please give me the answer if you know what it is.

[Mempho]

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Did Satan give us our intellects to make us fall into his trap?

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God gave you your intellect. Satan gave you the pride to think you had it all figured out. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[NotReady]

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But more than 40 million years, which was there claimed timeframe.


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I've listened to quite a few of their broadcasts. The overall point they're making is that the "prebiotic soup" so long touted by atheists as fact is totally wrong and that the Miller-Urey experiment is completely irrelevant. They don't go through the whole argument every time they mention the hadean period.

[tpir]

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Did Satan give us our intellects to make us fall into his trap?

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God gave you your intellect. Satan gave you the pride to think you had it all figured out. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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I have told you several times now that I know I don't have it all figured out. I am open to what you have to say if you have a sound rationale behind it.

Meanwhile you tell us: "well I think X is true so I look for evidence that supports it." That is such a gross misuse of your intellect. If God actually gave it to us, seems like he would be severely disappointed if not totally outraged.

[Mempho]

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Did Satan give us our intellects to make us fall into his trap?

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God gave you your intellect. Satan gave you the pride to think you had it all figured out. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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I have told you several times now that I know I don't have it all figured out. I am open to what you have to say if you have a sound rationale behind it.

Meanwhile you tell us: "well I think X is true so I look for evidence that supports it." That is such a gross misuse of your intellect. If God actually gave it to us, seems like he would be severely disappointed if not totally outraged.

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I always thought that was part of the scientific process. I started out with the hypothesis that "Evolution is true."

Then, I tried to see if there was any way that it could be falsified.

[bunny]

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But more than 40 million years, which was there claimed timeframe.


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I've listened to quite a few of their broadcasts. The overall point they're making is that the "prebiotic soup" so long touted by atheists as fact is totally wrong and that the Miller-Urey experiment is completely irrelevant. They don't go through the whole argument every time they mention the hadean period.

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I can accept this (and dont put much weight in the miller-urey experiment either). My beef with them isnt so much what they say as the certainty with which they say it.

The post I quoted said that life had arisen within 40 million years and that there was no naturalistic explanation for this "fact". That's a pretty strong claim and not one that's justified on the evidence they cite. I repeat that I applaud their efforts to engage the scientific community on its own terms (ie via the scientific method) I just wish they would feel more comfortable being less sure in their scientifically testable (or derived) claims.

[NotReady]

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I just wish they would feel more comfortable being less sure in their scientifically testable (or derived) claims.


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We have a very different impression of their attitude. For one thing they've often stated they're not monolithic there - they have internal debates and disagreements all the time. Just recently they've noted the possibility of having to adjust some details of what they believe about the hadean (maybe not as severe as once thought) and the role of Jupiter as a comet shield (maybe not as effective as believed).

Give me a link to your objection and I'll look at it.

[tpir]

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I always thought that was part of the scientific process. I started out with the hypothesis that "Evolution is true."

Then, I tried to see if there was any way that it could be falsified.

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Well you already admitted you were biased about the evidence and confident in your conclusion before you ever got started. Doesn't seem like falsifying anything would be much of a challenge if you were going to play by those intellectually dishonest rules.

[NotReady]

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if you were going to play by those intellectually dishonest rules.


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Mempho, I should tell you that on this forum, as soon as you start making sense and being honest as a theist you will immediately be accused of intellectual dishonesty and perhaps of being a troll. Just a heads up about what's in store for you in the Viper Pit.