WSOP on ESPN thread (9/18 - Day 4)

[CincyLady]

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Deb is a really good player IMO, after all she was/is the Arizona Women's State champion, and I've played in those Ladies events, and they are a LOT harder to play in than in mixed events.

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Say what? How can they possibly be harder than open events? By definition, a restricted event has a weaker field than an open event. US Open > US Am; PGA > LPGA; Junior Event; Champions Tour; etc.


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I think maybe she means that at the all-women event there were more people at the table having trouble playing.

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Playing in a Ladies Only event, is like trying to avoid land mines in a field of unexploded land mines, 10 miles deep, is what I meant.

You never know what the other women will do, and they for sure in my experience don't play like guys do.

I have to be very alert and be sure to play my A game when I play in a Ladies Only event, and there are things I can get away with in a Mixed event, that just won't fly in a Ladies Only event.

One example being, it's never a wise move to bluff in a Ladies only event, and when you try to raise, to try to figure out where you are, you'll get flat called (almost 100 percent of the time), even if they have a better hand, as opposed to a mixed event, where 9 times out of 10, if you bet your hand, and someone has a better hand, they will re-raise you, telling you where you are in the hand. No such luck in a Ladies event most of the time.

That's what I mean by saying that playing in a Ladies Only event, is harder than playing in a mixed event.

It takes a whole different skill set to play in one of them, as opposed to playing in a mixed event.

I tend to play these days in Ladies events to support my gender, for entertainment, and for social reasons. To play for the reasons I play in Mixed events, would drive me (or any player with an intermediate or above level of experiance) insane.

IMO, any woman that emerges at the other end the winner, had to play quite well, much better than in a mixed event, in order to win it.

[Black Aces 518]

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Deb is a really good player IMO, after all she was/is the Arizona Women's State champion, and I've played in those Ladies events, and they are a LOT harder to play in than in mixed events.

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Say what? How can they possibly be harder than open events? By definition, a restricted event has a weaker field than an open event. US Open > US Am; PGA > LPGA; Junior Event; Champions Tour; etc.


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I think maybe she means that at the all-women event there were more people at the table having trouble playing.

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Playing in a Ladies Only event, is like trying to avoid land mines in a field of unexploded land mines, 10 miles deep, is what I meant.

You never know what the other women will do, and they for sure in my experience don't play like guys do.

I have to be very alert and be sure to play my A game when I play in a Ladies Only event, and there are things I can get away with in a Mixed event, that just won't fly in a Ladies Only event.

One example being, it's never a wise move to bluff in a Ladies only event, and when you try to raise, to try to figure out where you are, you'll get flat called (almost 100 percent of the time), even if they have a better hand, as opposed to a mixed event, where 9 times out of 10, if you bet your hand, and someone has a better hand, they will re-raise you, telling you where you are in the hand. No such luck in a Ladies event most of the time.

That's what I mean by saying that playing in a Ladies Only event, is harder than playing in a mixed event.

It takes a whole different skill set to play in one of them, as opposed to playing in a mixed event.

I tend to play these days in Ladies events to support my gender, for entertainment, and for social reasons. To play for the reasons I play in Mixed events, would drive me (or any player with an intermediate or above level of experiance) insane.

IMO, any woman that emerges at the other end the winner, had to play quite well, much better than in a mixed event, in order to win it.

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Wait, so it's harder because the players are worse? LOL, don't let DanielleRB hear this. Also, PS, it is much better to play against bad players. You will occasionally be completely baffled, but in the long run, it is much better and easier. Do you think it is easier to win a 4/180 sit n go on Stars or a 20/180? 6000 player freeroll or Sunday Million?

Also, why aren't you backing me in the NVG thread since you say girls for sure don't play like guys do?

[Bonified]

Cincy,

You're seeing things that aren't there. Loads of players have been criticised for their play in the ME, both as a result of the TV footage and the hand reports at the time. I really don't think this is any different. Basically, not every comment about a woman player is entirely motivated by her sex and, even if it was, it wouldn't reflect badly on you, any more than it reflects well on you that I think Annette Obrestad is a top player. Just forget about it and play poker.

[wednesdayroast]

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i just watched it and it was instant facepalm everytime kahn or humberto was on the screen. its really uncomfortable and embarrassing to watch. kahn's parents or humberto's kids must just cringe with shame when they see him act like that. and how are the other players always so accommodating? you would think way more people would tell him to stfu or they would get in his face when they beat him in a hand. on the occasion that i am faced with some dick like that at the table in cash i always at least slowroll the [censored] out of him.

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Haha good call. Yeah I mean I think you could stand them if they jump around when they win a pot but to do it when you eliminate someone from possibly the biggest tournament of their life is so classless (probably a word).

What if they were celebrating and rubbing it in the face of the guy who had cancer last year and was fulfilling his life dream? Would Khan etc., be jumping up and down and whooping? Probably not. Do they know the story of the person they just eliminated? Probably not. So STFU!

Bottom Line: This is the World Championship of Poker, not a $33 Party Poker Sit n Go.

[CincyLady]

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(Originally posted by: Black Aces 518)
Also, why aren't you backing me in the NVG thread since you say girls for sure don't play like guys do?


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You have two threads going, one here, and one over in the Tourney forum (where they are attacking you for being racist or something like that).

In the one in the Tourney forum, that one says to not assume based on gender, what kind of player that person is, which I agree with.

However, I take it one step further ... don't assume period how someone plays is the way they always play based on just a few minutes or hours of playing with them.

You have to play with them several times, to even have a hope of getting a handle on how they play, accurately.

That said, any woman who tells you that playing in a Ladies Event isn't sometimes frustrating, is lying.

The thing about a Ladies event, is that in my experience, there is a far greater percentage of newbies, as opposed in a mixed event.

Newbies can be and are dangerous, especially for an intemediate player such as myself (and I in no way consider myself to be an expert at player), and I have a LONG way to go to be a better than that.

I've been playing poker now for 4 years, and when I'm playing for money, I'd rather play against another intermediate player, or even an expert player, than a newbie, because they are so unpredictable, especially in a tournament where you can't just reach into your pocket, and rebuy if the cards go against you.

Cash games IMO, Newbies are great to play against and a great way to make money, tournaments, not so much.

Normally I'm very cautious playing against anyone I've not played against, until I've seen them play for a while, but against a fellow woman, I'm even more so.

As for defending you (I can't resist here), is your argument so week, that you really need the help of myself, a 'mere' woman, to defend your position on the subject? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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(Originally posted by: Bonified)

Cincy,

You're seeing things that aren't there. Loads of players have been criticised for their play in the ME, both as a result of the TV footage and the hand reports at the time. I really don't think this is any different. Basically, not every comment about a woman player is entirely motivated by her sex and, even if it was, it wouldn't reflect badly on you, any more than it reflects well on you that I think Annette Obrestad is a top player. Just forget about it and play poker.

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I guess I just kept seeing everyone attacking Deb for her play, but not word one on Harry Potter for him donking of his chips the way he had been doing in the last few episodes.

Had there been comments on him as well, I guess I might not of taken it the way I had (attacking the woman only, no comments at all on HP donking off HIS chips with his super Aggro style).

Being a woman player, I find you're dammed if you do, and dammed if you don't.

If you play loose/agressive, your a donkey, and if you play weak/tight, your a donkey.

It just seems to me, that the women players are (more so then men) in a no win situation when it comes to how other players judge them.

[charliecozz]

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I guess I just kept seeing everyone attacking Deb for her play, but not word one on Harry Potter for him donking of


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Have you read this thread?? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Bonified]

QFT Charlie. On a quick skim of page one I picked up :

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I'm sorry, but that's some of the most reckless aggro donk poker I have ever witnessed. Maybe he needs to pick up an english dictionary and learn the word "fold." No concept of his table image or what he's trying to represent. Just bets and raises with reckless abandon. Yeah maybe 10% of the time he has a hand but he's gonna lose the other 90%. What a moron.

Little kids like this have no idea what they are doing.

Poker is a long term game and this guy better start learning or he's gonna learn the true meaning of massive downswing and i mean fast.

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Dario came off awful. He might be an amazing player, but not this episode. He appears to be of the mindset that he's simply going to shove the flop or turn anytime he enters a pot and blindly body-slam his opponent out of the pot.

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Anyway he played really badly from the hands they showed. I get a feeling he was playing stupidly the whole time given he was getting snap called on his bluffs by weak hands.

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Why on earth would he bluff with 3rd pair there? Did he really think he could fold out a 9?

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And you call this "not word one ?". Which kind of demonstrates the point I want to make. Everyone who plays on TV or in the public eye gets this kind of criticism. Men, women, old, young, black, white, American, European, pros, amateurs. EVERYONE. You just have to shrug it off. And there's really no point getting upset about it on someone else's behalf, even if you do feel they are representing your sex/country/ethnic group/style of play. Which, in any case, they're not. I'm representing myself, no one else, and I suspect most players are the same.

[DeuceSeven]

Cincy, i think you need to lay off the sexist card. And being scared of playing weak players in a mtt? That makes no sense. I'd rather play a weak field then a strong field. What adjustments do you make? Play a little more loose passive pf to get involved in more flops. Value bet higher amounts with slightly weaker hands than normal. Hardly ever make big bluffs unless you have a great read.

[DeuceSeven]

LOL at the guy who had trips or some kind of big hand who played the hand as bad as possible. iir, the guy calls the flop, bets 1/3 the pot on the turn giving his opponent to draw, then bets 1/5 of the pot with a full house. Then he says, "That's how you used to win a pot, by winning."

I bet this guy is one of those that bitches and moans about his AA getting cracked when he bets small the whole way giving someone the odds to beat him.

[CincyLady]

Not trying to use the sexist card (just for the sake of using it). I'm only stating what I've observed, in the 4 years I've been playing poker.

In any case, I don't claim to be great player myself right now, as I consider myself to be an intermediate player.

I do like weaker players to some degree, but I have no idea how to gage beginners is my problem, so I like it when they have a little skill, but not too much, and not too little either.