Libertarians: Stop Using Logic

[adanthar]

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Adanthar,

What right does anyone have to take my money at gunpoint and use it for things I don't agree with? For example why should I be forced to pay for a war I 100% disagree with that kills 100,000's of civilians that I've never met.

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Do you want *any* government, or none? If "any" - ie, you want Libertopia - you're going to have to deal with the fact that the majority of a democracy sometimes makes bad choices and has to live with them. Unless, that is, Libertopia is not a democracy.

If you want "none", the good news is you can be 100% sure you will never be part of an organized war, unless the guys next door to you decide to apply their own Monroe Doctrine. The bad news is you're probably never going to see the Internet again, because generating enough power for you to see what I'm typing right now = several hours pedaling a bicycle rigged to the village generator.

[adanthar]

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Technological improvements? Also the problems you reference were the fault of common (ie governemnt "owned") land. How is a Russian airline more free than a US one?

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I absolutely guarantee you two things:

1)Technological improvements, unless implemented "at gunpoint", do not account for the difference in railroad safety between JP Morgan - less than 100 years ago - and 2007;

2)Third World airlines have far less government oversight and are far more subject to the free market than any airline you can name in the First World.

I guess there's a 3)"Find me a completely deregulated airline, probably in Somalia, and describe a flight on one of their planes for me from a safety perspective" in there somewhere.

edit: Speaking of safe transportation, here is a Chinese car that is available to anyone in China who wants to buy it, with no government oversight at all. Lots and lots of Chinese drive these things, but here in horrible government-entangled America, we can't get these things on the market. How shameful that we're depriving some poor people of the chance to get hit by an SUV in one of these.

[Vagos]

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It's not *my* problem to fill every demand for information you have.

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So you admit that the 'rational consumer = perfect morality' model, the cornerstone of libertarian thought, is flawed.

Why, then, would I ever on God's green earth want to live in Libertopia?

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No ACist on this forum has ever made some "rational customer = perfect morality" claim. Of course there will be untrustworthy businesses, fraud and unsafe conditions. Just like there are today, with your glorious state. The general belief is that a free market system will deal with these issues better than a coercive state which is accountable to no one.

Perhaps you should stop cleverly implying it's a utopian dream world. You are misrepresenting the entire philosophy, either intentionally or by mistake.

[adanthar]

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No ACist on this forum has ever made some "rational customer = perfect morality" claim. Of course there will be untrustworthy businesses, fraud and unsafe conditions. Just like there are today, with your glorious state. The general belief is that a free market system will deal with these issues better than a coercive state which is accountable to no one.

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We've had several free market states in the recent past. They were even in industrialized economies. So please explain why I would want to live in Victorian England.

[ShakeZula06]

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Perhaps you should stop cleverly implying it's a utopian dream world. You are misrepresenting the entire philosophy, either intentionally or by mistake.

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Being that it seems he's implying Somalia has anything to do with anarchocapitalism, chances are it's by mistake. So at least he's not being dishonest.

[L'ennemi.]

adhantar-
It is ludicrous to critize libertairians and Ron Paul because he didn't vote for HR 180...On the contrary, it shows some balls that he did not vote for this populist [censored], and my hat's off to him..
As to wether or not he is racist: He is a republican congressman from Texas, so isn't it a prerequisite?

You're bold to argue with libertarians. ACism works perfectly in a vacuum, so none of your arguments that pertains to reality is going to make any sense...

[ShakeZula06]

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So please explain why I would want to live in Victorian England.

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Why would you? It was a lot poorer back then, and it wasn't the fault of the market or the government, there just simply wasn't as much wealth created back then. And what do you think created the wealth we live in today (with the exception of a few accidental creations from the government), the government or the market?

[adanthar]

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Perhaps you should stop cleverly implying it's a utopian dream world. You are misrepresenting the entire philosophy, either intentionally or by mistake.

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Being that it seems he's implying Somalia has anything to do with anarchocapitalism, chances are it's by mistake. So at least he's not being dishonest.

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Nope, didn't imply that. I did say that an airline in Somalia is likely to be as free of government regulations as possible. Do you think those planes are more safe or less safe than if you registered that same plane out of JFK?

[L'ennemi.]

And by the way, why would you not want to live in Victorian England?
You make a living playing poker, you're a lucky chap...
Odds are that you would not be a working kid...

[valenzuela]

Adanthar Im going to repeat my question, I want a direct answer not some reference to other post.
Why is it OK to tell people what cars they can buy while its not OK to protect them from poker? Youre position is not consistent.
Also whats youre stance on bungee jumps?