The Dumbing Down of America

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]
or that using spell check actually decreases anyone's ability to spell (it's almost certainly the opposite)

[/ QUOTE ]

Spellcheck does however lead to people making silly mistakes such as your instead of you're or to too and two. Often it leads to people not proofreading at all.

[theben]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since I use my calculator for gaussian elimination, does that mean I is stoopid?

Since I would prefer to use spell-check and take a fraction of a second finishing a task instead of minutes I is stoopid?

Don't confuse "lean" with stupidity. Work smart, not hard!

[/ QUOTE ]


Meh, you are pretty stupid for not understanding the point that they were getting at.

[/ QUOTE ]

You must feel quite brilliant for making some wise crack post that borders on trollish.

Sorry if I missed some big point here, not everybody possesses your prodigious intellect.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]


Unfortunately for guys like me, instead of going to school with other smart, intellectually curious people, I now have to attend classes full of bozos like you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to agree with your general point here that there is a much more pragmatic attitude towards education today that is somewhat anti-intellectual, and is more concerned with accreditation and what school can do for you. In such an atmosphere, I think true education is quite difficult.

That said, your posting in this thread reads more as ranting than coherent exploration of an idea. You really don't think that the sample from 1850 you're referencing likely being far more advanced in their education compared to average is relevant? Or econophile's point that anything you're reading from that time period now is likely to be quite good? It just seems like you're repeating a thesis which is based more on conventional wisdom than evidence.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When I refer to quality writing I'm not talking about Charles Dickens or Shakespeare and I'm not talking about Ye Olde Middle English. Jesus Christ.

I'm talking about breadth of vocabulary, sentence structure, ability to use metaphors, and overall clarity of thought.

[/ QUOTE ]


I fail to see how grammar/syntax/great use of the language should be placed higher up than any other random thing you are taught to memorize in school. As long as you can convey your point concisely, i see no need to read Shakespeare to be considered intelligent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends what you do. Writing well can be impressive and give people confidence in you. Imagine hiring a lawyer and then reading a letter from him that makes him sound like language isn't one of his strong points. Uh oh.

[FlyWf]

[ QUOTE ]
When I refer to quality writing I'm not talking about Charles Dickens or Shakespeare and I'm not talking about Ye Olde Middle English. Jesus Christ.

I'm talking about breadth of vocabulary, sentence structure, ability to use metaphors, and overall clarity of thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Something we stupid people like to do, just for [censored] and giggles, is provide the thinnest [censored] smidgen of evidence to support the [censored] that spews unbidden from our collective gaping maws. You wanna slum for a minute here and try that out?

Didn't you say you were leaving this thread after mason hurt your feelings middle of last page? Take your ball and go home, [censored].

[Lottery Larry]

Most television, movies and what passes for political dialogue these days

[guids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When I refer to quality writing I'm not talking about Charles Dickens or Shakespeare and I'm not talking about Ye Olde Middle English. Jesus Christ.

I'm talking about breadth of vocabulary, sentence structure, ability to use metaphors, and overall clarity of thought.

[/ QUOTE ]


I fail to see how grammar/syntax/great use of the language should be placed higher up than any other random thing you are taught to memorize in school. As long as you can convey your point concisely, i see no need to read Shakespeare to be considered intelligent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends what you do. Writing well can be impressive and give people confidence in you. Imagine hiring a lawyer and then reading a letter from him that makes him sound like language isn't one of his strong points. Uh oh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Touche. But say as humans we are evolving, from communicating in long-winded, and superfluous jibba jabba, to communicating as quickly as possible, when do you transition?

this is going to sound crazy, but personally I believe that the indigo children phenomenon is not as nuts as people think, I think that we are evolving, or at least adapting to the the excessively fast technological developments faster than people before us, etc. At what point do we phase out the formalities of learning, like grammar etc, and get to a point where we can communicate as quickly and succinctly as possible.

[Triumph36]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Calculator instead of Pen and Paper
GPS Navigation instead of a Map
Spell Checker instead of a Dictionary

[/ QUOTE ]

Only the first one actually respresents any sort of dumbing down in my opinion.

I doubt that using a nav system actually makes it impossible for anyone to use a map, or that using spell check actually decreases anyone's ability to spell (it's almost certainly the opposite), but I see every day how the use of calculators has replaced the ability to do math. This is the fault of public school math instructors though, and not the calculator itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

boro -

i disagree on all three of these points. using a nav system will almost certainly deaden people to using maps, and using spellcheck means you don't have to know how to spell words. I think you're projecting your own intellectual curiosities and ability to retain information on to others. While these items increase efficiency, they also increase the possibility of lassitude as well - like any other piece of technology that replaces a simple task, people lose the ability to do those simple tasks when the technology is removed.

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When I refer to quality writing I'm not talking about Charles Dickens or Shakespeare and I'm not talking about Ye Olde Middle English. Jesus Christ.

I'm talking about breadth of vocabulary, sentence structure, ability to use metaphors, and overall clarity of thought.

[/ QUOTE ]


I fail to see how grammar/syntax/great use of the language should be placed higher up than any other random thing you are taught to memorize in school. As long as you can convey your point concisely, i see no need to read Shakespeare to be considered intelligent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends what you do. Writing well can be impressive and give people confidence in you. Imagine hiring a lawyer and then reading a letter from him that makes him sound like language isn't one of his strong points. Uh oh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Touche. But say as humans we are evolving, from communicating in long-winded, and superfluous jibba jabba, to communicating as quickly as possible, when do you transition?

this is going to sound crazy, but personally I believe that the indigo children phenomenon is not as nuts as people think, I think that we are evolving, or at least adapting to the the excessively fast technological developments faster than people before us, etc. At what point do we phase out the formalities of learning, like grammar etc, and get to a point where we can communicate as quickly and succinctly as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, I don't really buy this. Writing "some1" for "someone" is informal, but basically harmless. But a lot of what people assume is pointless, like correct paragraph structure, good transitions, organization, and most punctuation is actually really functional and critical to good writing. The txt/IM mode of communication is generally good for rapid communication of simple ideas. Real-world writing is basically the opposite: carefully prepared presentations of complex ideas, often for people who don't have the time to infer things or read between the lines.

As far as writing goes, my sense is that the problem is kids' having a belief that they already know how to communicate in writing. After all, they know how to work a word-processing program, and they text their friends all the time. The result is that even smart, educated people just don't put work into writing and end up spouting incomprehensible gibberish.

[guids]

But a lot of what people assume is pointless, like correct paragraph structure, good transitions, organization, and most punctuation is actually really functional and critical to good writing. The txt/IM mode of communication is generally good for rapid communication of simple ideas. Real-world writing is basically the opposite: carefully prepared presentations of complex ideas, often for people who don't have the time to infer things or read between the lines.


I guess I dont agree with this, Im comming from a tech background so that may skew things as basically every textbook I read is dry and to the point.