Women Are Not Oppressed.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you hung up on this "military" thing? If women *want* to go fight, they can. Go buy a AK-47, travel to Iraq, and start shooting people.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't realize making a point was "being hung up." I didn't even it up.

Your response is ridiculous. We're discussing inequalities in the workplace. Someone brought up the military and this came out of it.

[Smasharoo]

This is not true although it's an easy knee-jerk response.

No, it's a completely accurate response that men generally don't want to accept so they can feel better about it.

It's not complicated.


What percentage of kindergarten teachers are male?
What percentage of coalminers are female?
Which job pays more, and which job is more dangerous to your health?


Kindergarten teacher pays more and is less dangerous, and there are more women teachers and less women coalminers, and teaching is less dangerous.

Is there a point anywhere in my future?

[iron81]

I'm giving Smasharoo 2 days off to ask his Kindergarden teacher how to play nice.

[TomCollins]

[revots33]

[ QUOTE ]
Your response is ridiculous. We're discussing inequalities in the workplace. Someone brought up the military and this came out of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I absolutely agree that women should be allowed to fight at the front lines if they are competent.

However, that still does not dismiss my earlier point about the draft. Men can be FORCED to fight (and die), women cannot. That is a huge disparity.

For every woman who wants to fight at the front lines but cannot - how many males got killed after being drafted against their will into WWI, WWII, Vietnam, etc.?

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
However, that still does not dismiss my earlier point about the draft. Men can be FORCED to fight (and die), women cannot. That is a huge disparity

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Though I point out again... its men who created there rules. You can't very well argue that men are paid more because they do more dangerous work then point out that men won't let the women do the more dangerous jobs.

[ QUOTE ]
For every woman who wants to fight at the front lines but cannot - how many males got killed after being drafted against their will into WWI, WWII, Vietnam, etc.?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know. I only reiterate that its men who aren't letting women fight, its men who are ruling out drafting women. Women have traditionally had no say in this matter.

The other funny thing about this part of the thread is that you're using a very dangerous job that does NOT pay very well in a thread to explain the disparity between men and women's pay and equating it to danger.

I'm wondering how many dangerous jobs (other then fighting on the front line for the army) really pay that well and would account for the wage disparity? Lobster fisherman?

[revots33]

I picked coal mining mainly because it is one of the most dangerous jobs and it is overwhelmingly done by men - as are most of the jobs where serious injury/death are common in the workplace.

While it is not a high-paying job per se, it is higher paid than many other nonskilled professions done mainly by women (hotel maids, for example), mainly because of the premium for likely physical harm that is built into the salary.

I found this article on CNN's web site, which seemed to give a pretty fair and evenhanded view of the wage disparity issue. The article acknowledges some disparity, but does not fall into the trap of using statistics to make a simple issue out of a complex one.

[kurto]

Nice article.

Though it did reiterate that a percentage of the disparity is still attributeable to gender bias:

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Whatever the breakout, there certainly are numerous studies that show discrimination -- however unconscious -- still exists. For instance:


A recent Cornell study found that female job applicants with children would be less likely to get hired, and if they do, would be paid a lower salary than other candidates, male and female. By contrast, male applicants with children would be offered a higher salary than non-fathers and other mothers.


A recent Carnegie Mellon study found that female job applicants who tried to negotiate a higher salary were less likely to be hired by male managers, while male applicants were not.


[/ QUOTE ]

I should state too... I blurbed briefly earlier that I DO have some personal problems with gender bias in the workplace. For instance, personally, I have issues with the way maternity leave is handled in the office. I do think that women are favored in certain ways. So I'm playing devil's advocate somewhat.

I happen to work in a very liberal workplace at the moment. But as I've stated before, I've also worked in places where women had 'their place' and their promotability and salary reflected that. (and I've never worked anywhere more dangerous then a deli)