I DESERVE RESPECT

[Shoe]

A few things. All of the questions you guys have brought up have already been answered by myself or others here at 2+2.

I do not have a Bank of america or Chase card, but I know for a fact with Citicard they send you convenience checks that you can use however you want. Discover card and countrywide also worked the same way for me. Writing one out to yourself does not count as a cash advance, i have confirmed this with them on the phone before doing, and have since not been charged one penny in interest. There was however a 3% fee on the amount I transferred. Citi does not cap the 3% fee but all the other ones I did were capped at a 3% fee up to a maximum of $75.

You can do this for any card that has a 0% introductory rate, regardless of the bank. If they don't send you convenience checks, you can transfer to another card that you don't carry a balance on and then request a refund check from that card (Citi lets you request a refund check online without even having to talk to their customer support).

The 0% rate generally lasts for 12 months. Some banks are only 6, and i have seen has high as 18. It's up to you to keep track of everything, and of course if you mess up you are going to have to start paying 18% or more. After the introductory rate is up, as long as you didn't max out your credit, you can either apply for a new card with a good balance transfer rate, or transfer to one of your existing cards that have offered you a good balance transfer rate (if you have any with available credit).

If you can't find another good balance transfer offer when your introductory rate is up, you will either need to come up with the cash or start paying lots of interest. If you are keeping the money in a savings account it shouldn't be too hard to just transfer to your checking account and pay off the balances. In my case, I'd have to sell stock to cover balance (which if i did in less than 1 year unfortunately I would not get the capital gains tax rate, thus wasy I left what I believe is enough room in my credit to be approved for enough balance transfers when they come due).

As for the following parts of your post:

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This will be huge for making monies on the stockmarketz.


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That's what I have been saying all along.

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Well shiat I guess in this fun game that Shoe plays he doesn't plan on paying any taxes on that $2500 he made in interest or on any interest earned in other ways of shuffling around this money.


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I don't know what game you think I'm playing, but at any bank you earn interest at they report your interest to the IRS. Also, any stocks sales I make are listed on my taxes as well. I pay all my taxes, thank you very much. I'm glad there is another ass on this site that tries to make me out to be some kind of criminal, when if in reality, they did even the littlest bit of research, they would find out everything is perfectly legal and legit.

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I would gladly call anyone of your CC companies Shoe on your behalf and ask about your accounts if they would have an issue with you doing this. I would bet they would instantly close your accounts because you are "GAMBLING" with their money.


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They honestly don't care what you do with the money. They are hoping I decide to blow it on HD TV's, clothes, expensive meals, or maybe even a car, and then I will be stuck paying them a ton of interest over a long period of time. That's how they make their money. Unlike most people though, I have the self-control to come out ahead on this deal. Stop acting like your all god-like and you know their T&C. It says right on the freaking convenience checks that "you can even write them out to yourself!"

Also, if you think me buying stocks makes me a greater credit risk than the people who get up to their eyeballs in debt buying useless junk over the years, then again, you are mistaken. I treat my stocks as collateral to my credit card loans. Most people with credit card debt don't have anything to show for it, but they might be able to make a few bucks at a rummage sale.

If it feels like too much work or too much of hassle for you, then by all means skip it. I'd really appreciate if you guys would stop falsely accusing me of stuff when in reality you have no idea what your talking about.

[Henry17]

I think you are still not getting it. You started a thread called "I DESERVE RESPECT". You have tag lines and location lines where you call yourself "the king of the stock market" and ask people "to follow [you] to riches".

What you are doing is most likely legal but it is nevertheless shameful. You don't want to see this because you want to do this.

My GF could easily go down to Holt's buy herself a designer outfit, wear it to a function, then return it. All perfectly legal so long as she returns the outfit in the same condition she bought it and within the days specified on the receipt. This is nevertheless pathetic and shameful behaviour.

I could go down to the student area and collect returnable bottles out of the trash. On a Sunday after a good weekend of parting I'd come away with a good $60-80 for an hour's work. Perfectly legal and over the year much greater then the extra $2500 you were discussing. Do I make fun of the homeless person who does this every weekend? No. Would I expect to be made fun of if I did it? Yes.

You can't demand respect, claim to be the king of the stock market, ask people to follow you to riches then engage in pathetic shell games to generate chump change.

[Shoe]

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I think you are still not getting it. You started a thread called "I DESERVE RESPECT". You have tag lines and location lines where you call yourself "the king of the stock market" and ask people "to follow [you] to riches".

What you are doing is most likely legal but it is nevertheless shameful. You don't want to see this because you want to do this.

My GF could easily go down to Holt's buy herself a designer outfit, wear it to a function, then return it. All perfectly legal so long as she returns the outfit in the same condition she bought it and within the days specified on the receipt. This is nevertheless pathetic and shameful behaviour.

I could go down to the student area and collect returnable bottles out of the trash. On a Sunday after a good weekend of parting I'd come away with a good $60-80 for an hour's work. Perfectly legal and over the year much greater then the extra $2500 you were discussing. Do I make fun of the homeless person who does this every weekend? No. Would I expect to be made fun of if I did it? Yes.

You can't demand respect, claim to be the king of the stock market, ask people to follow you to riches then engage in pathetic shell games to generate chump change.

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You still don't get it. I'm sick of people just making up BS about me in this thread. Just off the top of my ahead, I have been falsely accused of the following in this thread, for no apparent reason:

1. Lieing about my profession
2. Kiting
3. Tax evasion

And I'm sure there are more. If you want to have a legitimate discussion about the credit card loan thing (which is still completely different and legitmate than anything you compare it to), we can do that but i'm done talking about it here, as this thread was started to analyze the stock picks I have made and posted about here in the past -- all of which have done extremely well. There is no shame in picking stocks that provide great returns, and someday I hope to have enough money that taking out 0% credit card loans will be too much of a hassle for me. As of right now, the return I gain on those loans is just to great to pass up -- I could quite possibly double the money I took out this year, pretty much doubling my take home pay for the year, assuming I hold them long enough to only pay have to pay the 15% capital gains tax instead of being taxed at my normal income level.

I'm more than happy to discuss any subject. But people seem to be only asking me questions so they can accuse of me of lying right after I answer them truthfully. Yes, I find that annoying. When I am doing something perfectly legal, and get accused of kiting or tax evasion, this without anyone even asking if pay my taxes or not, just assuming, then yes, I find that annoying.

I get it you don't like my 0% loan thing. I never said you had to. But to accuse of me of kiting and comparing me to degenerates is just flat out ridiculous.

In many cities collecting returnable bottles/cans out of the trash actually is illegal. I don't know if it is ever enforcded, but you are basically stealing from the city (people were giving these items to the city to recycle). The city uses the proceeds from these profitbale to recycle cans and bottles to also support their other recycling programs that are not profitable. I'd say someone who does that is indeed shady. Also, it is 100% different from what I'm doing. You might be able to make more than $2500 a year as well, but your hourly rate will be much lower. There might be a rare hour or 2 where you make $60-$80 in an hour, but I assure you that is not the norm. If that was true you'd see half the town doing this every weekend, and the homeless wouldn't be homeless for long if that was the case either.

What I am doing is accepting money from companies that are going out of their way to give it to me. Go look at a few websites, I'm sure you will see some ads to companies that are trying to get you to do the same. They are laying a trap, that if you are not careful about, will end up making them a LOT of money.

I'd also say buying clothes, wearing them, and then returnig them is completely unethical, even though you might be able to get away with it. There is also a big difference between doing what you know is against the store's policies, and doing something like I do, that is completely agreed upon between the 2 parties. I just got another offer in the mail yesterday -- i'll try to scan it so you can get a better idea of what I am talking about, but here is what it says:

Balance Transfer Checks -- Use them for ANYTHING you want. Pay your bills. Make deposits to your checking account. Transfer your balances. Use where credit cards aren't accepted. (This offer is from Citi)

I have 2 different types of checks with this offer, one of them is 0% interest until May 2008. The other is a 4% rate for the life of the loan.

Please, just tell me how depositing this money in my checking account and then buying stocks is going against the terms of the agreement? It says right on their offer that I can deposit in my checking account and use the money for ANYTHING I want. The ANYTHING I want just happens to be stocks. Until you can address this valid point I keep making, and you keep ignoring, you will continue to not make any sense.

[Henry17]

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is against the store's policies, and doing something like I do, that is completely agreed upon between the 2 parties. I just got another offer in the mail yesterday -- i'll try to scan it so you can get a better idea of what I am talking about, but here is what it says:

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Actually no. The credit company gives you the promotion to get you as a customer. If they knew your plan to keep playing this shell game they would not agree to it.

There are plenty of time-share properties that will give you a free vacation in exchange for having the opportunity to try and sell you something. There is nothing wrong with not buying the unit after you accept the free vacation but you have to at least be open to the possibility of it.

If someone went on bi-yearly vacations simply by exploiting these time-share offers over and over again they would have done nothing illegal. It is still embarrassing and pathetic behaviour.

[Shoe]

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is against the store's policies, and doing something like I do, that is completely agreed upon between the 2 parties. I just got another offer in the mail yesterday -- i'll try to scan it so you can get a better idea of what I am talking about, but here is what it says:

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Actually no. The credit company gives you the promotion to get you as a customer. If they knew your plan to keep playing this shell game they would not agree to it.

There are plenty of time-share properties that will give you a free vacation in exchange for having the opportunity to try and sell you something. There is nothing wrong with not buying the unit after you accept the free vacation but you have to at least be open to the possibility of it.

If someone went on bi-yearly vacations simply by exploiting these time-share offers over and over again they would have done nothing illegal. It is still embarrassing and pathetic behaviour.

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Not necasarily. This offer came from a card that I have had open for several years. They aren't trying to get me as a customer here -- they already have me. They are just trying to get me to increase my debt level with them, that is all. I think I will oblige.

The thing is, I would gladly borrow as much money as I could find at their 4% offer, which they offer for the life of the loan. I just don't see a reason to pay 4% when I can pay 0% instead.

If I took out 4% loans that were 4% for the life of the loan (they are offering this to me unsolicited and apparently think that is a good return on their money), would that be just as shady to you as well?

[Henry17]

No. If you borrowed the money at 4% it would be fine. Assuming you could find someone who would lend you money at 4%. It is the shell game of constantly shifting the balance in perpetuity that is embarrassing.

[Shoe]

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No. If you borrowed the money at 4% it would be fine. Assuming you could find someone who would lend you money at 4%. It is the shell game of constantly shifting the balance in perpetuity that is embarrassing.

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What about people that join a poker site only to take advantage of the deposit bonus? And then cash out and never come back, or only come back if another bonus is offered?

[SlowHabit]

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No. If you borrowed the money at 4% it would be fine. Assuming you could find someone who would lend you money at 4%. It is the shell game of constantly shifting the balance in perpetuity that is embarrassing.

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What about people that join a poker site only to take advantage of the deposit bonus? And then cash out and never come back, or only come back if another bonus is offered?

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Those people don't write a thread titled "I DESERVE RESPECT?"

[Henry17]

As SlowHabit pointed out those people don't start threads about how they deserve respect nor do they have tag-lines about following them to riches.

[Shoe]

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As SlowHabit pointed out those people don't start threads about how they deserve respect nor do they have tag-lines about following them to riches.

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That's not the point. Do you consider them to be just as bad as those types of people who would sit through a timeshare presentation just to get a free vacation? Or those types of people who take out 0% credit card loans? Do you see my point? If not, why are you able to pick and choose which promotions are ok to take advantage of, and which ones are not?

These companies are offering a PROMOTION, that they hope will keep you around. You are under no obligation to stick around.

If my credit card companies are able to convince me, during the promotional period, just how great it is to keep my debt with them and continue to pay them huge amounts of interest, then I will do so. If they can't, I will probably pay off the loan, or perhaps transfer to another company.