Torre is back... edit... NOT

[Mondogarage]

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So far you have come up w/ quite a few gems.
1. The Yankees fired Joe Torre. Wrong
2. Bobby Abreu is signed next year. Wrong
3. Other than Cano, no one has come up in the farm system to help NY in the last 3 years. wrong
4. Except for Joba, the Yankees don't have any young starting pitching next year. wrong
5. Colorado would finish ahead of NY and Toronto if they played in the AL East. wrong
6. NY would be in 3rd place if they played in the NL West. wrong

You obviously know nothing about the American League or how the NYY are run. But you keep talking about it as if you do.

Man, I can't WAIT until Sublime, Technologic and Thayer get a load of your crap!

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And I can't WAIT until you develop some reading comprehension skills.

1. I said the Yankees "fired" Joe Torre. Not fired. "Fired". As in, making him an offer they knew he'd find insulting, thus achieving their desired effect without having to admit they didn't want him back.

2. I asked for confirmation whether or not Abreu was signed. I never claimed he was signed.

3. No position players since Cano and Melky have become regulars for the Yankees in the last three years.

4. Most of the starting pitching the Yanks called up this year from the minors did not perform well, other than Joba, Kennedy, and sometimes Hughes.

5. Colorado would finish ahead of Toronto, and possibly ahead of New York. Not definitely, but possibly.

6. NY is not a better team than the San Diego Padres. And possibly not better than the Rockies, but probably not better than the Rockies and the D'backs will be next year. Yes, they could finish in 3rd place. At least they're a lot better than the Dodgers and Giants.

[Karak567]

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Is Billy Martin still alive? He could hire and fire him one last time before he doesn't know what he's doing any more.

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He's dead.

[Mondogarage]

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When did I say the Devil Rays are better than the Rockies? IMO the Rockies would finish 4th in the AL East in a 162 game sample size, who knows where they would finish in a 25 game sample size, or more appropriately in a 3 game sample size. I mean they swept the Yankees, they are obviously better then them right?

The AL East is a better division than the NL West.

Does the fact no one has agreed with you maybe give you an idea you are completely wrong?

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And by "no one", you mean the other what...10 people responding in this thread. And ya'll give me crap for sample sizes...

Boston is probably better than every team in the NL West

NY is better than...say...most of the teams in the NL West

Toronto is better than a couple of teams in the NL West

Baltimore and Tampa Bay are worse than every team in the NL West except the Giants.

Four of the five teams in the NL West finished above .500.

The NL West has one really terrible team.

The AL East has two really terrible teams.

So how does this make the AL East a better division?

I'm not even categorically saying the Rockies are better than the Yankees. Obviously, three games doesn't mean hardly enough. However, you all are categorically saying that the Rockies are worse than the Yankees, when the available evidence directly contradicts this. While my available evidence is flimsy, but supportive, your available evidence is contrary.

[Mondogarage]

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I've done a lot of thinking about this in the last 2 hours and have come to this conclusion:

The Yankees SHOULD have resigned him at 7.5 mil with a team option for 7.5 mil that is gt'd if he wins the AL. This keeps the players happy, encourages Posada, Rivera and A-Rod to resign and doesn't put a mark on the organization.

What they did is just classic Steinbrenner. It was a complete slap in the face of Torre. Asking him to accept a pay cut is asking him to admit "I'm not as good as I used to be." It's a joke. A lot of us are too young to remember the old days of the menacing Steinbrenner, but I know from studying Yankee history that he used to do this [censored] to managers all the time. How many times did he fire and hire Billy Martin for Pete's sake?

this is the old George coming out for one last time

Instead they have put a mark on the organization and pissed the players off. Who is closer to Torre than Posada and Rivera? Stupid [censored] move.

If they were going to insult him and low-ball him then they should have told him right away they didn't want him back then this stupid 10-day process. That would have been ok in everyone's eyes.

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Thank you. That's all I was trying to say.

[tuq]

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They were a far better team than Arizona, who was outscored over the course of the season.

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Here we go again, goddammit you are annoying.

In the series where your beloved Rockies swept the D'Bags, the D'Bags outhit your team 36-30, had ten extra base hits to the Rockies' six, had a 51-42 total base advantage against the Rox, outhit them .254-.222, outslugged them .359-.311 and held a .671-.627 edge in OPS. The Rockies did draw ten more walks though, and more importantly were WAY better with RISP and 2 out RBIs. They won games two and four by a thread*, and game three was closer than the score appears too. You got lucky, and if your boys need luck to get by a team as "horrible" as the D'Bags (BTW I'm not really arguing that they weren't very good) then good luck against the AL, because you're gonna need it.

* Game four required a gay two-run, two-out bloop down the foul line and a Conor Jackson error that led to four unearned runs in that same inning. All six runs in that game were gifts.

[tuq]

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Is Billy Martin still alive? He could hire and fire him one last time before he doesn't know what he's doing any more.

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He's dead.

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How did the old joke go? He's the only guy to ever die sliding into home? Something like that.

[Karak567]

Mondogarage, I don't know who you are, but you know absolutely nothing about the Yanks system. I understand a lot of your misconceptions, but things have changed bud!

The Yankees have one of the deepest farm systems full of young pitching in all of baseball. Hughes, Sanchez, Joba, Betances are all on the top 100 prospects list. Clippard, Kennedy, Alan Horne and Ross Olhendorf are all on the verge. Some scouts put Olhendorf and Kennedy in the top 100.

ML ready pitchers next year: Hughes, Joba, Kennedy. On the edge: Sanchez and Olhendorf. With potential: Rasner, Karstens, DeSalvo and Wright.

Hughes, Joba and Kennedy were all brought up a little pre-maturely, to fill some holes. They are all going to be hitting their ML-ready years next year. The Yankees have so much depth.

No position players have become ML regulars? Because they are all blocked by all-stars at the ML level! The Yankees have one of the top OF prospects in all of baseball in Tabata and one of the top, albeit raw, catching prospects in Jesus Montero. There are more, but I won't waste your time.

To say that the Yankees are worse than the teams in the NL West is laughable. The AL has the best teams by far in all of baseball, this is not even an argument anywhere. Looking at that, even playing in the much harder AL, the Yankees still had a better run differential than every single team in the NL West.

[Thremp]

Mondo,

Instead of arguing with your Aceshigh level of understanding, I'm going to insult you.

U R IDIOT.

Though since I pity your soul. Most of the things you mention are results oriented and highly variable with significant regression to the mean in each year. Relief ERAs swing wildly along with fielding on teams. Granted the Rockies are a very good fielding team, but you said it yourself that they had the all-time highest... Are they the all-time best? How often does the all-time best even put up numbers indicative of the fact? You seem to grasp little comprehension of the difference between the leagues, efficiency of sports betting markets as an indicator of the disparity, not to mention sample size issues.

In addition you rag on the Yanks farm system which is pretty effing retarded. Cano is the 2nd best 2B behind Utley, who is one of the best baseball players periods. Cano is a top level talent. You also somehow find a way to disparage a MLB avg CFer who hasn't even hit his arb years which shows a fundamental lack of understanding of value.

[Mondogarage]

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They were a far better team than Arizona, who was outscored over the course of the season.

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Here we go again, goddammit you are annoying.

In the series where your beloved Rockies swept the D'Bags, the D'Bags outhit your team 36-30, had ten extra base hits to the Rockies' six, had a 51-42 total base advantage against the Rox, outhit them .254-.222, outslugged them .359-.311 and held a .671-.627 edge in OPS. The Rockies did draw ten more walks though, and more importantly were WAY better with RISP and 2 out RBIs. They won games two and four by a thread*, and game three was closer than the score appears too. You got lucky, and if your boys need luck to get by a team as "horrible" as the D'Bags (BTW I'm not really arguing that they weren't very good) then good luck against the AL, because you're gonna need it.

* Game four required a gay two-run, two-out bloop down the foul line and a Conor Jackson error that led to four unearned runs in that same inning. All six runs in that game were gifts.

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Yup, here we go again. The Rox were outhit by 1.5 hits per game, having batted two less innings. (And yeah, Cruz and Pena were sick against us, you've got great arms there.)

But it's exactly what you cite as "gifts" that made the Rockies better. The Rockies didn't make baserunning gaffes to kill innings. The Rockies didn't make errors and give freebies (Hawkins error on that 15 foot base hit probably should have been scored a hit.) The Rockies played far better defense, and were far more patient hitters, except when Cruz and Pena were on the mound.

If Arizona were a better team, they would not have made so many blunders. I should not have said they were "far" better. They did beat Arizona five games to four at home, and five games to four on the road. So they are at least somewhat better this season. Who knows about next year, both have a lot of young talent, and both teams should be better next year than this year. But eighteen games (regular season only) is a fair enough sample size. 22 games, including the playoffs, is a better sample size.

But you keep saying Arizona outplayed Colorado when, in many facets of the game, they simply did not. They outhit Colorado, but then Colorado's defense and heads up play (or Arizona's lack of heads up play) held Arizona to two runs a game, nearly half of those on one swing. That doesn't sound like outplaying to me.

But you're right about one thing, I think we'll need some breaks to be able to overcome either Cleveland or Boston. Just not as many as you probably think.

[tuq]

Mondo,

"But you keep saying Arizona outplayed Colorado when, in many facets of the game, they simply did not."

My comments weren't a referendum on how good Arizona is or isn't, it's rather a comment on how on one hand you are trying to sell everyone on how the Rockies are at the AL East level (in a Joe Torre thread no less, heh) while they are coming off of a series in which they were statistically even against a team that you spend the rest of your time bashing and pointing out their inadequacies. Does not compute. Well it does compute as blind homerism, which doesn't help objective analysis.