STTF SNG->cash thread - Page 160

jgunnip · #**1591** 10-13-2007, 08:33 AM

flatting JJ there is fine against most players at 25nl. Raising is definitely ok too. I like the hand as played.

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after checking behind on the turn, you definitely bet the river.

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Dr_Jeckyl_00 · #**1592** 10-13-2007, 09:48 AM

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Can you give me an idea of what hands (FR) to open with, call with and raise with in EP, MP, LP in cash games? I am openning/raising limpers a lot w/ sc, sg, connectors and gappers, as well as big aces. (opening w/ sc, gappers, etc; raising limpers in MP-LP with Axs, A8o+)

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Dr J, This is a very good post from SSNL that will help you think about playing these kinds of hands. There are some very good responses in the thread as well.

A couple of additional thoughts regarding that particular hand:

1) Even in 6 max you only want to isolate players that have a tendancy to limp often but give up easy post flop

2) Position matters a lot when doing this because because you want to be nearly certain to have position after the flop or it's just not worth it

3) People don't fold enough in NL25 - you should be more apt to play your hands in a straightforward manner

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That is a good thread. I'm 2/3's through it. They mention the 5/10 rule . Can anyone tell me what that is?

Dr_Jeckyl_00 · #**1593** 10-13-2007, 09:53 AM

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Villain was my nemesis at this table. He limped a lot of crap, anything suited, and when he hit 2 pr he c/c until river. He would also c/c w/ tpwk, mp, bp, so basically I never new where I stood with him. Also, PAHUD was not working so I had no stats, although I am still learning how to use it so it really wouldn't matter.

Here are 3 hands vs him. How's my line?

Hand 1 - deleted
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Hand 2 - villain in question folded on turn. Did I play too strong?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 ($9.65)
CO ($60.75)
Button ($24.40)
SB ($24.50)
BB ($14.80)
UTG ($13.15)
Hero ($66.95)
MP1 ($31.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.25, 2 folds, CO calls $1.25, Button calls $1.25, SB calls $1.15, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.

Flop: ($6.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $5, CO calls $5, Button folds, SB folds, UTG raises to $11.9, Hero calls $6.90, CO calls $6.90.

Turn: ($42.20) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $53.8 (All-In), CO folds.

River: ($42.20) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $40.15 I believe... converter messed up
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Hand 3

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($9.65)
UTG+1 ($45.85)
MP1 ($28.10)
MP2 ($25)
CO ($22.75)
Button ($14.45)
Hero ($93.45)
BB ($31.25)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 3 folds, Button calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.5, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1.25, Button calls $1.25.

Flop: ($4.75) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $4, UTG+1 calls $4, Button folds.

Turn: ($12.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $10, UTG+1 calls $10.

River: ($32.75) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $30.5, UTG+1 calls $30.35 (All-In).

Final Pot: $93.46

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bump - I guess 3 hands is too many, but it was the same villain. Anyway took out the 44 hand... but my real question is am I risking/betting to much w/ the AK (tptk) and KK (over-pair) hands? Should I be practicing stack preservation at any point? Please comment on all streets

Jbrochu · #**1594** 10-13-2007, 10:09 AM

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They mention the 5/10 rule . Can anyone tell me what that is?

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I think the concept is credited to Bob Ciaffone from his book, Pot Limit & No Limit Poker .

He basically says when contemplating calling a raise preflop with a drawing hand like small and medium PP and SC's, if the raise is for less than 5% of your stack, it's an easy call; if it's for more than 10% of your stack, it's an easy fold. In between you need to use your judgement.

IMO it's a fine guideline but don't forget to consider effective stack sizes.

Jbrochu · #**1595** 10-13-2007, 10:15 AM

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I continue on the turn for the same reason I would not double barrel this turn.

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Devin, can you clarify this sentence for me? Are you saying bet the turn since he checked but had he raised don't reraise?

Jbrochu · #**1596** 10-13-2007, 10:24 AM

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JB
You have JJ and position. I think a raise pf is required! If you raised there I think that would change villain's c/c range post flop.

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Dr J - there are a couple of reasons why I flat call with JJ here.

Villain is basically unknown so if I 3-bet and he re-pops me from UTG I'm kind of in a bind. A lot of time I'm probably going to end up folding the best hand preflop.

If I knew some more about villains range and playing style then I have a much easier preflop decision. However, I think 3-betting is fine as well even agains an unknown.

The other reason is I think I outplay most NL25 opponents postflop most of the time. (lol right based on the hands I post. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] ) I'm playing a much more passive style at NL25 than I will when I move up to NL100 at the end of the month.

microbet · #**1597** 10-13-2007, 12:11 PM

EV Graph

There are the infamous Fgators EV stats. I know they were just posted in the [censored] thread, but....

I've played most of my cash hands on Absolute and the PokerEV program doesn't work for it, but in my small sample on FT my green line is doing fine, but it is still well below my other lines. I figure that's probably standard for anyone who is playing well and isn't a huge LAG.

Does anyone here have a green line that's above the other lines?

cha59 · #**1598** 10-13-2007, 12:22 PM

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JB
You have JJ and position. I think a raise pf is required! If you raised there I think that would change villain's c/c range post flop.

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Dr J - there are a couple of reasons why I flat call with JJ here.

Villain is basically unknown so if I 3-bet and he re-pops me from UTG I'm kind of in a bind. A lot of time I'm probably going to end up folding the best hand preflop.

If I knew some more about villains range and playing style then I have a much easier preflop decision. However, I think 3-betting is fine as well even agains an unknown.

The other reason is I think I outplay most NL25 opponents postflop most of the time. (lol right based on the hands I post. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] ) I'm playing a much more passive style at NL25 than I will when I move up to NL100 at the end of the month.

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Raising JJ here is fine at 25NL too. I think calling is fine too.

Jbrochu · #**1599** 10-13-2007, 12:30 PM

Micro - the response quoted below in blue is from Adanthar:

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lolllllllllllllllllll .....

that looks so insane.

can someone please give a hint what a normal gap between blue and green graph would be? thx [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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it's hard to say because it greatly depends on your style of play, but at the very least, it should never form a right freaking triangle 

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Jbrochu · #**1600** 10-13-2007, 12:51 PM

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Raising JJ here is fine at 25NL too.

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I agree 100%. I was just explaining why I leaned toward calling in that particular instance.

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Here is a spot I am having some trouble with. Maybe the problem is opening this light from the CO with a villain on the BU that just doesn't like folding?

Comments on all streets welcome.

Villain is 54/26/1.4 over 40.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Button ($40.25)
SB ($30.85)
BB ($24.50)
UTG ($73.90)
jb ($24.65)

Preflop: jb is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, jb raises to $1, Button calls $1, 2 folds.

Flop: ($2.35) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
jb bets $1.75, Button calls $1.75.

Turn: ($5.85) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
jb checks, Button bets $4.5, jb calls $4.50.

River: ($14.85) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
jb checks, Button bets $33 (All-In), jb...?

View Poll Results: who likes
check/call	1	8.33%
bet/call	5	41.67%
bet/3b	5	41.67%
check/raise	1	8.33%
bet/fold (NITS)	0	0%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll