Yanks offer job to Girardi

[CharlieDontSurf]

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for all the hate Dusty Baker gets, he made it to a World Series and an LCS with different teams.

I am not saying he is a good manager. However, citing him as the worst manager of all time looks fairly foolish when you consider the relative success he's had - so yes, I think replacing Torre with Dusty Baker would've resulted in plenty of championships.

CDS, I'm waiting for some insider info that the Yankees couldn't've won without Torre - you know, someone that knows Jeter's friend's ex-girlfriend saying that if not for Joe, he would've never gotten Jeremy Giambi out - that sort of thing.

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insider info? huh?

Dusty Baker would not have lasted 10+ years with the Yanks...sorry. Woulda been fired well before that.

This is pointless to argue cuz 1/2 the people in here view players and teams as somehow not being human and thus subject to outside influences, distractions, emotions and are simply robots who perform day in day out however their given numbers suggest they should.

The other 1/2 seem to think managers have no value and thus if u put any given manager, regardless of temperment/personality, with the Yankees from 06-2007 they win the same amount of championships, reach the WS/playoffs same amount of time blah blah blah

so Cashman should obv just save the organization some $$ and hire the cheapest manager he can find, as long as they aren't mentally retarded, given the manager of the team can not influence his club's performance positivly, short of making perfect in game moves/descions.

[Vyse]

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but I am confident

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And that makes everything true.

[CharlieDontSurf]

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[ QUOTE ]
but I am confident

[/ QUOTE ]

And that makes everything true.

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Yep...in this case it does. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
No other means to test the hypothetical.
Unless you know of another dimension where the 96 Yankees hired Tony Larussa as their manager and thus we could see how that team did over the next 10 years.

[THAY3R]

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"I'm not saying Joe Torre is a specific number of games won."

Yea dude, you are.

You are implying that Joe Torre is worth more than most great baseball players, as a manager.

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Actually Thay3r I'm not. I may not have written it out to be clear enough but my argument was that Joe Torre's value as a Yankee manager was > 0 and was a significant influence in them being so succesful over the last 10+ years. Despite the negatives he brought.

And that just any coach wouldn't have achieved the same results in part because if you put a different manager, say a Tom Coughlin/Bobby Knight type personality, as the manager of the team it is going to influence and affect the club differently and in my view have major negative influence on the teams performance.

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I hope you realize that you are essentially saying :

"Actually Thayer, I'm not. Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am."

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but I am confident

[/ QUOTE ]

And that makes everything true.

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No. It doesn't make it true. Did I say it is as a fact? I believe you are the one that creates "facts" here.

AND I am even more confident that I have a better feel for the Yankees and the situation in New York over the past twelve years than a cocky arrogant new-age-Yankees Red Sox fan.

[CharlieDontSurf]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"I'm not saying Joe Torre is a specific number of games won."

Yea dude, you are.

You are implying that Joe Torre is worth more than most great baseball players, as a manager.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually Thay3r I'm not. I may not have written it out to be clear enough but my argument was that Joe Torre's value as a Yankee manager was > 0 and was a significant influence in them being so succesful over the last 10+ years. Despite the negatives he brought.

And that just any coach wouldn't have achieved the same results in part because if you put a different manager, say a Tom Coughlin/Bobby Knight type personality, as the manager of the team it is going to influence and affect the club differently and in my view have major negative influence on the teams performance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you realize that you are essentially saying :

"Actually Thayer, I'm not. Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am."

[/ QUOTE ]

So then you are saying there would be no difference in Bobby Valentine being hired over Joe Torre as long as he made the same in game moves as Torre. Yanks still win 4 in a row, still make the playoffs 12 conseq years and Valentine survives all the turmolt and in fighting to still be the coach up until last month.

[CharlieDontSurf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"I'm not saying Joe Torre is a specific number of games won."

Yea dude, you are.

You are implying that Joe Torre is worth more than most great baseball players, as a manager.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually Thay3r I'm not. I may not have written it out to be clear enough but my argument was that Joe Torre's value as a Yankee manager was > 0 and was a significant influence in them being so succesful over the last 10+ years. Despite the negatives he brought.

And that just any coach wouldn't have achieved the same results in part because if you put a different manager, say a Tom Coughlin/Bobby Knight type personality, as the manager of the team it is going to influence and affect the club differently and in my view have major negative influence on the teams performance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you realize that you are essentially saying :

"Actually Thayer, I'm not. Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am Yes I am."

[/ QUOTE ]

please can i have some of the stuff u are smokin..cuz its got to be better than mine

[Triumph36]

Thayer's point is quite simply that none of the stuff you are talking about demonstrably affects on-field performance.

And his counterpoint is managers like Billy Martin and Earl Weaver who invited controversy wherever they went and still managed to win.

[Mondogarage]

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Thayer's point is quite simply that none of the stuff you are talking about demonstrably affects on-field performance.

And his counterpoint is managers like Billy Martin and Earl Weaver who invited controversy wherever they went and still managed to win.

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It's pretty much an unprovable proposition, but that doesn't make it untrue.

However, there are those who believed that part of Billy Martin and Earl Weaver's schtick was for the purpose of taking pressure off their players so they could just play ball. Given Weaver's feuds with Palmer, and Martin's feuds with...multiple players, I'm not sure it's true in those cases, but there have certainly been at least some documented cases of managers saying things to the effect of them acting out to draw the focus away from players who may be under pressure. Does that translate into more wins? I don't think that's provable one way or the other.

[Vyse]

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No. It doesn't make it true. Did I say it is as a fact? I believe you are the one that creates "facts" here.

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But it's true in your mind. That's where I'm poking fun at you. You're dense.

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AND I am even more confident that I have a better feel for the Yankees and the situation in New York over the past twelve years than a cocky arrogant new-age-Yankees Red Sox fan.

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That's great, I suppose. Totally irrelevant, considering I don't think anyone here is a Red Sox fan, and even if they were it would still be irrelevant, but yeah. Okay.