Evil Atheism.

[foal]

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to believe u r inherently special moral etc is as ridiculous as believing in Jesus

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But since you're Christian you must believe in Jesus. So what's your point? Your argument is "you can't believe this, because if you did you'd be as ridiculous as me"?

Just because someone doesn't believe in God doesn't mean they can't believe in things that have nothing to do with science. I'm sure there are atheists out there who believe in astrology etc.

[madnak]

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We believe apes and other animals live a relatively meaningless selfish (altruism is a myth) and amoral life.

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I hate responding to trolls, but this is too much.

Altruism is an established behavior pattern that exists to some degree in a wide variety of species. It's particularly prevalent among mammals, including apes.

[Xylem]

1. im not christian.
2. Altruism is no different to any other kind of favour, the difference being the payoff is harder to spot.

[tame_deuces]

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2. Altruism is no different to any other kind of favour, the difference being the payoff is harder to spot.

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That's one view, but it is hazy because it is so easy to say. 'Oh the guy just saved the other guy from drowning in that storm because he wanted to be a hero in his society or live up the ideals of heroism'

So easy there is plenty of doubt to be had. There is no conflict between atheism and to believe true altruism exists. Maybe you think so, but your view isn't the only one, and it isn't necessarily correct.

[luckyme]

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1. im not christian.
2. Altruism is no different to any other kind of favour, the difference being the payoff is harder to spot.

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childless man jumps on grenade (equivalent of) to save strangers.
Please lay out the payoff for him.

luckyme

[Xylem]

Survival of genes?
heaven?
Heroic wish?

Many potential reasons.
Dawkings also acknowledges the myth of altruism, its pretty much common knowledge i thought.

Ps. i know Dawkings isnt Atheisms God.

[foal]

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1. im not christian.

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No? What God do you believe in then? And I repeat:
"Just because someone doesn't believe in God doesn't mean they can't believe in things that have nothing to do with science. I'm sure there are atheists out there who believe in astrology etc."

[foal]

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Survival of genes?
heaven?
Heroic wish?


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Is heaven a better reason than the others? Why is doing something to get into heaven "good", while doing it simply because you care about someone is not?

[madnak]

There are cases in nature where one animal gives its life to save another. I agree that there is always some "payoff" involved, but only in a petty reductionistic sense. Perhaps a good rule of thumb has bad results in a specific case. Perhaps an organism's genome gains some "success by proxy." Etcetera. But these benefits don't apply to that organism itself, so the actions are selfless, even if there is some kind of "payoff" in the broadest view.

[Xylem]

Your right nak but at the end of the day it is still for own reasons.