"The Well" aejones style

[aejones]

[ QUOTE ]
ae, I have a similair question, about the donks and flop bets.

at 100NL a lot of the time lately I will raise PF, say with AK and the flop will be like 2, 7, J or something. I will make my cont bet and the guy will min raise it. Now what?

I am bad at knowing what to do here.

[/ QUOTE ]

This comes up quite a bit. There is a huge difference if there is a flush draw on the J 7 2 board or not. If there is, people very very often check-min-raise c-bets with draws. Sometimes gutshot straight draws, but more often flush draws. Another hand people like to do this with is a medium/weak top pair hand. Sometimes, I'll call the minraise with AK (float) with the intention of taking it away on the turn. (I c-bet 10 into 18 on the flop, they make it 20, I call. Turn is a blank [not pairing the top card] he bets 30 [half pot] and I make it 100 to try and get him fold his top pair medium kicker)

Also, it would help that if you can get a stat like some people do on PAHUD where you can see what % villian raises c-bets. If I had access to that at lower levels, it probably would have helped my winrate a lot. Also, it really never hurts to 3-bet with air a decent amount. You c-bet 12, he makes it 24, pop it up to 85-100 or so on occasion and see how it goes. People generally will get tight if you 3-bet the flop unless you have an absolutely maniacal image. In this same vein, I recommend c-bets of half pot to 2/3 of pot. You might get calls from mid pair hands more often, and therefore have to fire more second barrels, but the smaller c-bets you make, the more room you have to manuever and make plays, which helps a lot.

[gir]

I started playing less than 6 months ago, had an epiphany on Dec 6th and have moved from 25NL to 100NL and have just acquired 20BI for 200NL. Personally, I've only played 13k hands of 100NL (6PTBB) and feel like I should play a bit more to fix some of my leaks before I move up more.

1. My standard deviation feels huge. For NL100, it's 55BB/100 ($110) and 54BB/hour ($107). I realize it's a pokertracker stat and that you don't have a huge chunk to check from, but clearly, neither do I (I think it used to be even larger for me in smaller stakes as I was getting better). What are your standard deviations? Do you know what these numbers 'should' be?

2. What bankroll requirements would you recommend for 200NL, 400, 600, 1000?

3. You mentioned 'merging your range' as an advanced technique. Can you literally list off advanced techniques that I can look up and study one by one? I feel like I'll be moving up in the next few months and would like to start applying/trying/testing new methods before I get there.

Thanks!

[aejones]

[ QUOTE ]
I started playing less than 6 months ago, had an epiphany on Dec 6th and have moved from 25NL to 100NL and have just acquired 20BI for 200NL. Personally, I've only played 13k hands of 100NL (6PTBB) and feel like I should play a bit more to fix some of my leaks before I move up more.

1. My standard deviation feels huge. For NL100, it's 55BB/100 ($110) and 54BB/hour ($107). I realize it's a pokertracker stat and that you don't have a huge chunk to check from, but clearly, neither do I (I think it used to be even larger for me in smaller stakes as I was getting better). What are your standard deviations? Do you know what these numbers 'should' be?


[/ QUOTE ]

I am actually not sure what my numbers are becuase I don't know where they are in Poker Tracker, and I'm not really sure what they're supposed to be. I think we had a thread on it in MSNL a while ago and most people fell between the mid forties and the high fifties.

I would really only be worried about how high variance of a style that you play if you are regularly having ten buy in downswings. A ten buy in downswing is usually indicative of some kind of leak, or just running terrible. Other downswings are usually pretty standard... but remember, downswings often lead to bad play that we can't identify as bad play because running bad and playing bad go hand in hand.

[ QUOTE ]

2. What bankroll requirements would you recommend for 200NL, 400, 600, 1000?


[/ QUOTE ]

I used to not care about bankroll requirements. I used to just do whatever and not really worry about it. I used to have major tilt problems, go broke every month or so. I played well postflop, but didn't know what I was doing in a lot of fundamental areas of the game.

Now, I'm a huge bankroll nit. I have 50+ buyins in my account for 5-10 NL. Before I moved up, I routinely had 50+ buyins for 400NL back on Party poker and then on Stars. Really really nitty about my BR. Now, I routinely take shots, including rapage at 10-20 and 25-50.

I highly recommend 3 buy in shots (cts advocates this as well, I think he got it from aba, but I could be wrong). I think, for instance, that if you play well and feel good about your game.. for instance, if you have a 4k roll, you should perhaps take a 3 buy in [censored] at 400NL when you get to 5k. The reason is that the risk is so much worth it because of the reward. I mean, if you ran hot at 400NL and were a good/competent player, you could make a lot of money. g-p took a shot at 25-50, I think he had a decent amount of money obviously and can probably beat 25-50 full time, but the dude made like 16 buy ins in a very very short amount of time. He ran insanely hot (there is a BBV post about this). Snakekilla88 (I think thats his tag on 2+2) used to play 200NL as far as I know, took a shot at 600NL, ran insane, and now regularly plays 600 and 1000NL because of makes a ton of money from taking a shot. Playing way above your roll is NOT good, but taking controlled shots, where you say "I will play 4 tables until I get rich or lose 3 buy ins" is VERY +EV.

The higher levels that you move, the more buy ins that you need. I'd say 20 buy ins for 400NL, 30 buy ins for 600NL, and 40 buy ins for 1k NL, or something like that.
[ QUOTE ]

3. You mentioned 'merging your range' as an advanced technique. Can you literally list off advanced techniques that I can look up and study one by one? I feel like I'll be moving up in the next few months and would like to start applying/trying/testing new methods before I get there.

Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm.. as far as advanced techniques, merging your range goes hand in hand with thin value betting. Know a lot about how you want to play in 3-bet pots (a lot of this is experience). Know all the basics and the 5/10 rule (never call more than 5% of your stack with suited connectors, never call more than 10% of your stack with a pocket pair when you need to hit a set to be good). Know about b3b'ing with draws. Don't play big pots out of position. I can't really think of exact terms... there are a lot of concepts that really aren't called anything. Maybe learn the Yeti theorem and the Zeebo theorem if you don't know them; we use them as jokes around here, but they're pretty damn true. If you're really going to move up quick, know when you should be CR'ing the river. You have to be able to look at a hand and know when checking the river is great, leading it is awful. It's the number one mistake IMO of people from OOP.

To add to the post earlier of the person asking what people do wrong the most as my level, it is, without a doubt, that no one knows when to check raise the river.

[vortex86]

aejones, i just read this whole thread and i feel it gave me a lot of insight and made me a tiny bit of a better poker player.
im a retired limit player (mostly 5/10 and 10/20) just starting it up with NL 100, right now im 8 tabling and i feel i can def. beat the game, i want to play maybe 50k hands and then move on to 200, i have the roll, just dont want to jump into the cold water so quick.


1)
one thing i have a problem with.
im in the SB and its folded to me and the BB is a nit. i steal here with any two and it works close to 95% of the time.

now if the BB is a 40+ vpip i tighten up so much because i dont want to be OOP for the whole hand against them. this seems wrong because i want to play many hands against them but rather IP
should i use a different approach?
2)
the thing that i see as most valueable is the squeeze play. i raise the limpers and take down so many pots preflop or on the flop and get more action on my real hands. right now i mostly squeeze when people have limped, can you give me some tips about squeezing when there was a raise and a call and its my turn in the blinds or OTB.


thank you

[gir]

Amazing advice, thanks again. I'll look up the 'Yeti theorem and the Zeebo theorem' as I can't say I've heard of either. I'll check out thin value-betting, although I feel I'm almost always betting a large chunk of my upper range and a tiny tiny percentage of air (I might have to start raising more air on the river...But we'll see if I have the balls).

I'll try and find the standard deviation thread, and so you know, the numbers are located under the Session Notes tab and then in 'More Detail...' Then select the level you want to know about.

[aislephive]

I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of river checkraising, when to and when not to do it, and also what to do when facing one. Here are a few hands I've posted in SSNL where I've checkraised the river or been checkraised on the river. If you could can you look at each of them and tell me your thoughts on each? If you could just read the original post that'd be fantastic as to not be results oriented or anything.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post9292204

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post8571712

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post8374710

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post8926861

[aejones]

[aejones]

[ QUOTE ]
I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of river checkraising, when to and when not to do it, and also what to do when facing one. Here are a few hands I've posted in SSNL where I've checkraised the river or been checkraised on the river. If you could can you look at each of them and tell me your thoughts on each? If you could just read the original post that'd be fantastic as to not be results oriented or anything.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post9292204

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post8571712

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post8374710

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post8926861

[/ QUOTE ]

In the first one, check the river always. He has to bet AK/AA which he may have gone for pot control with on the turn, and he'll probably bet small pairs or AJ hands with no showdown value. You have to check raise the river, you've shown to much weakness.

Second hand, another good spot to check raise. Leading effectively says "I have Ad or a boat, only play hands better than that." If you check, he can bluff, or bet any big diamonds. If he checks behind like QJ of diamonds, oh well, he should probably be betting it for value. If he has a straight with no diamond, he might bluff with it, but really nothing good comes from leading.


Third hand, looks good again. He's got to v-bet 2pair+, sets, or a smaller flush. No real value in leading for the pot, a good spot to check raise because his range of hands to calls your lead that won't value bet is VERY small.


The reason a call here is good is because people don't check raise the river often enough. If he's good, I can see him having KQ type hands. But 9/10 times, someone leads that river after you check behind the turn. That's the key in this hand, you have relinquished aggression on the turn, and he's still checking the river... very few 200NL players have that kind of discipline to do this with a king.

[aejones]

[ QUOTE ]
aejones, i just read this whole thread and i feel it gave me a lot of insight and made me a tiny bit of a better poker player.
im a retired limit player (mostly 5/10 and 10/20) just starting it up with NL 100, right now im 8 tabling and i feel i can def. beat the game, i want to play maybe 50k hands and then move on to 200, i have the roll, just dont want to jump into the cold water so quick.


1)
one thing i have a problem with.
im in the SB and its folded to me and the BB is a nit. i steal here with any two and it works close to 95% of the time.

now if the BB is a 40+ vpip i tighten up so much because i dont want to be OOP for the whole hand against them. this seems wrong because i want to play many hands against them but rather IP
should i use a different approach?


[/ QUOTE ]

I raise a huge variety of hands from the small blind into both nits and fish. I can see why you wouldn't want to raise into fish, because he'll be harder to get respect from c-bets, and you'll whiff a lot. However, he'll also pay off more when you flop a big hand with your 57s, so perhaps in that regard it's better to raise it up and play more straightforward postflop? It's also helps to know if 40 VPIP means he'll peel a lot of flops, does he go to showdown a lot, does he fold to second barrels, does he do leaky things like minraise with medium strength hands, and how does he view you? Lots of things to consider, not every 40 VPIP is exactly the same, though in general their lack of liking to fold is good to value bet the [censored] out of, and not dick around with marginal hands.

I think your approach is just fine, consider many things and you'll be okay.

[ QUOTE ]

2)
the thing that i see as most valueable is the squeeze play. i raise the limpers and take down so many pots preflop or on the flop and get more action on my real hands. right now i mostly squeeze when people have limped, can you give me some tips about squeezing when there was a raise and a call and its my turn in the blinds or OTB.


thank you

[/ QUOTE ]

Squeezing is huge. It used to be no part of my game at all, but I've opened up to squeezing much more since there is tons of dead money out there from people who don't defend their open raise. Raising limpers is great, they've already given away so much of their hand by limping, or limping behind, that often a big raise can do the trick. I recommend hands with no value to do this with, or hands with strong value, and to limp behind with mediocre hands that can play well postflop if you hit a flop well.

Traditionally, you'll do fine by looking at stuff like this "CO or MP raises, his PFR is like 16%+ let's say, button calls, he'll three bet with a large range here, so he's always got small pockets or random SCs" in this case, a raise with any two from one of the blidns can definitely be plus EV. I recommend a raise to like... 4.5x or so what the open was. Open to 4 dollars, call on button for 4, you're in the bb with any two, you pop it to 18 bucks. I traditionally go to 180 in the 5/10 games after it's been 40 open and one call. Squeezing definitely gets you a lack of respect though, so act accordingly. Where there is super aggro'ness at the higher levels, you'll get stuff like this:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($1239.25)
Button ($1672.50)
SB ($195)
BB ($256.10)
Hero ($1015)
MP ($1021.25)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $30</font>, MP calls $30, CO calls $30, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $170</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1015</font>, MP folds, CO folds, Button calls $845.

Flop: ($2105) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Turn: ($2105) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: ($2105) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: $2105

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Kc Ac (two pair, kings and sixes).
Button has Th Tc (two pair, tens and sixes).
Outcome: Hero wins $2105. </font>


Where everyone knows what everyone knows and two tens is the nuts because opening light, squeezing light, resqueezing light, etc. I don't think games play this actively preflop, so I don't recommend this.

[aejones]

Some favorite posts that I wrote myself:

Raising to Isolate (my best theory post, from ~8months ago)

No Theory here, just thoughts on Party's death

(I definitely rebounded and made 50k+ since Party died)

In this thread, interesting post about where I feel we are in comparison with the Poker World




Posts that aren't mine, but that I think it will blow your mind to read:

Samo's first post: I learned a lot about two card poker

Jesus this is interesting: I reread this one once every month or two


I'm too lazy to find more... but those are some of my favorite threads.