Blackwater in a time of peace

[romdom]

[ QUOTE ]
All I've asked for is some hard evidence that A) the person involved is actually in any way affiliated with Blackwater, and B) An unjustified shooting by this person occured.

You seem much more interested in arguing about the way I make my points than the validity of them. Could that be because YOU don't have sound logic behind your position?

[/ QUOTE ]
wow, just wow, can someone help me out here?

[DblBarrelJ]

[ QUOTE ]
there's this

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The Iraqi findings are also at odds with initial assertions by the State Department that the convoy had received small-arms fire.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like a classic "He said She said" to me.


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and since u'll undoubtedlty say the ny times is biased, there's this
i could find more for you, but if you care you can just google for yourself

[/ QUOTE ]

Same story, different author.

[romdom]

first you argue from ignorance
and use that to make a totally baseless inference, genius.

[DblBarrelJ]

[ QUOTE ]
first you argue from ignorance
and use that to make a totally baseless inference, genius.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't some ridiculous, useless argument about religion or some other nonsense. You're implicating people in hundreds of heinous crimes with no evidence, other than conflicting stories, one coming from the Iraqi Government and your best retort is that I'm arguing from ignorance?

That may fly with some, with the one huge gaping hole being this: You're as ignorant about what happened that day as I am!

Forgive me for requiring a little evidence with my murder accusations.

[NeBlis]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All I've asked for is some hard evidence that A) the person involved is actually in any way affiliated with Blackwater, and B) An unjustified shooting by this person occured.

You seem much more interested in arguing about the way I make my points than the validity of them. Could that be because YOU don't have sound logic behind your position?

[/ QUOTE ]
wow, just wow, can someone help me out here?

[/ QUOTE ]


It is hard to help you because you are wrong.

Simply because you want Blackwater to be evil and wrong does not mean that they are.

Guess what? If you shoot at armed bodyguards they are going to kill you. And the shooting will be justified. Now toddle off and find us an unjustified shooting.

edit to add:

Innocents killed by stray bullets while sad do not count. Show me one unprovoked attack.

[romdom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
first you argue from ignorance
and use that to make a totally baseless inference, genius.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't some ridiculous, useless argument about religion or some other nonsense. You're implicating people in hundreds of heinous crimes with no evidence, other than conflicting stories, one coming from the Iraqi Government and your best retort is that I'm arguing from ignorance?

That may fly with some, with the one huge gaping hole being this: You're as ignorant about what happened that day as I am!

Forgive me for requiring a little evidence with my murder accusations.

[/ QUOTE ]
good stuff, hope somebody takes the time to read this thread.

[DblBarrelJ]

Arguing from ignorance is a good counter-argument when you're debating something that is almost totally proven, but not completely.

Evolution is a good example. There is overwhelming evidence to show that evolution is true, but there is no absolute proof that we're not created by a divine maker.

This isn't one of those cases. In this case, the chances of either of us being right is about 50/50. After
looking at Blackwater's website, I would put my position at around a 60/40 lead. link. I believe that it is actually highly unlikely that someone with the training and experience required to work with Blackwater would fire on someone unprovoked.

Here are the specifics:

Mobile Security Team Member
Requirements
Minimum of 8 years of active US military experience (National Guard & reserve time does not count) and qualified in Special Operations Forces (Navy: SEAL, Army: Special Forces, Ranger, Marine: Force Recon, Air Force CCT, PJ)

12 months of experience overseas (High Threat Environment)

US citizen

Honorable Discharge

Valid US drivers license

Current US Passport

High school diploma

Able to get a Top Secret clearance. No negative history to include criminal, financial etc.

Flexible deployment and rotation schedule

Daily in country pay rate starts at $550.00.

I find it difficult to believe someone that highly trained, knowing military psych exams, would have problems with anger management/self control.

Therefore, I believe, since we're both arguing from ignorance here, that mine is the more likely position, just from the training and experience these security agents must possess, as well as my knowledge of what it takes to get into those courses in the first place.

[tame_deuces]

This debate is stupid. Iraq isn't Africa in the 70s when mercs could get away with anything and 16 goons with guns could conquer a region.

Of course a professional private contractor requires professionals, and professionals usually aren't trigger happy thugs. A few probably slips through, but usually you should worry far more about irregulars and reserve units when it comes to that.

Special forces guys often have training in liaison-operations too and alternate ways to solve tricky situations. Why? Because those solutions require good training, enormous discipline and someone who is capable of not pulling always pulling the trigger just because [censored] gets a little hairy.

I'm sure there are some rotten apples in BW, but I'd also guess the thing is blown a little bit out of proportion. The big problem is ofcourse that legal contractors usually operate with UN sanction (like in Sudan), and the whole Iraq thing may have moved this 'legal practice' into a dangerous greyzone (I might be off on this, I don't know what sanctions BW is running with exactly).

[DblBarrelJ]

You are correct. This debate is stupid. My main problem with the people who generally demonize Blackwater is that they make utterly asinine statements like this:

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They kill people for money. Let's not dress up the obvious.

link


[/ QUOTE ]

then the Blackwater haters become incredulous that you would demand evidence to back statements such as that.

[BCPVP]

This thread is pretty ridiculous. I just wanted to say that if the statement "[Blackwater] kills people for money. Let's not dress up the obvious." is true for Blackwater, it's true for police officers too. And neither should have immunity from being held accountable for their actions.