Just Saw Sicko, Now Have Question - Page 16

kipin · #**151** 07-26-2007, 02:26 AM

John Spartan,

For someone who thinks so highly of your own point of view, and feels they can "win" any argument against an AC'er/libertarian why do you need to resort to such childish debate tactics such as calling the other point of view "stupid" and telling people to "shut up".

Just curious.

John Spartan · #**152** 07-26-2007, 02:44 AM

Kipin, yes I called the taxation is theft idea stupid, and it's also annoying, because it's posted so much. I again called it stupid when Emperor kept posting that bs over and over again about giving people cars and drivers and gym memberships at government expense, when no one came close to suggesting this.

plzleenowhammy · #**153** 07-26-2007, 02:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Ideally that would be nice, but we have limited resources and need to take care of our own citizens.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the difference between our own citizens and citizens of other places? You seem to imply that human rights differ from one place to another.

Also, please tell me how taxes are not theft.

tyvm

John Spartan · #**154** 07-26-2007, 02:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ideally that would be nice, but we have limited resources and need to take care of our own citizens.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the difference between our own citizens and citizens of other places? You seem to imply that human rights differ from one place to another.

Also, please tell me how taxes are not theft.

tyvm

[/ QUOTE ]

No I won't bite the troll hook. You clearly are against government funded universal health care so you are trying to make an argument that if we can't provide health care for everyone in the world, we should provide it for no one. That is ridiculous. That's like asking why we have firemen in this country but don't have firemen putting out fires that devastate poor countries. We only have so much money so taking care of the basic needs of our own first is not a radical concept.

And taxes are not theft because you choose to live here and be a US citizen(or a citizen of basically almost any developed country you reside in), and so you have to pay taxes. If you don't like it, then you can leave. This is different from a robber holding a gun to your head because the robber doesn't give you the choice to walk away from him.

plzleenowhammy · #**155** 07-26-2007, 03:10 AM

i wasn't trying to make that argument at all. just asking the question because i was unsure. it's sort of interesting because you're saying that the citizens of a country (the people who pay taxes) should have first crack at gov't services and those who do not pay should not have access.. how's that different from a free market solution where all those who want, pay and all those who do not want, ignore?

as to the other.. does a police officer give you the option to walk away from him?

John Spartan · #**156** 07-26-2007, 03:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i wasn't trying to make that argument at all. just asking the question because i was unsure. it's sort of interesting because you're saying that the citizens of a country (the people who pay taxes) should have first crack at gov't services and those who do not pay should not have access.. how's that different from a free market solution where all those who want, pay and all those who do not want, ignore?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's different because right now there are people in this country who can't afford health insurance. They'd be covered under a single payer plan, because they are CITIZENS. Yes I would take care of citizens and other legal residents before people in other countries. I don't need to explain why.

[ QUOTE ]
as to the other.. does a police officer give you the option to walk away from him?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they don't. But people can leave before they rack up tax bills. Living here and receiving the benefits and then complaining about having to contribute is ridiculous

owsley · #**157** 07-26-2007, 03:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
And taxes are not theft because you choose to live here and be a US citizen(or a citizen of basically almost any developed country you reside in), and so you have to pay taxes. If you don't like it, then you can leave.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is not true. You may in fact be able to leave, but you still have to pay US taxes.

John Spartan · #**158** 07-26-2007, 03:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And taxes are not theft because you choose to live here and be a US citizen(or a citizen of basically almost any developed country you reside in), and so you have to pay taxes. If you don't like it, then you can leave.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is not true. You may in fact be able to leave, but you still have to pay US taxes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if you renounce your citizenship.

Jamougha · #**159** 07-26-2007, 03:39 AM

Oh god lock this [censored] already.

owsley · #**160** 07-26-2007, 03:46 AM

The IRS will block people from renouncing citizenship if they think the person is doing it to avoid a tax burden (I wonder how they usually rule....). When you try to renounce US citizenship, there are two processes, applying to the state department and applying to the IRS. So it is much, much, more complicated than you make it sound. Saying that "if you think taxes are theft you can just leave" is not true.