M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

[MyTurn2Raise]

LESSON TWO: WHO SAYS IT HAS TO BE A 2-STREET GAME?

So, back in April if I remember right, Imsakidd PMs me about shortstacking after reading 2p2 and seeing that I made some good money the previous summer. The Kidd explains that he's been making alot at 6max and I should look into it. Skeptically, I start to play....yahtzee! Than, Cardrunners has a video where one of their studs talks about how much he hates shortstackers, but that he respects 40putts as the best shortstacker in the game. Woohoo!

40putts is on FTP and it's time to set the datamining machine into effect.

The very first thing that sticks out is that 40putts minraises almost every time preflop. WTF? Isn't minraising bad? Well, I'll tell you why he does it. I imagine that you will think it's obvious after the fact as I did. I only laughed at myself for being such a crappy poker thinker that I did not realize it myself.

If you watch the competent shorties today, you'll see very very few instances where they open for more than 3X BB. Imsakidd and myself regularly open 2.5X. 40putts remains a 2X fiend.

So, think about why one raises preflop?
In NLTAP, Sklansky and Miller list 6 reasons:
1. For value
2. For isolation
3. To steal the blinds
4. To semi-bluff
5. For deception
6. To manipulate pot size

I don't think 2p2ers need to be reminded how important some of this is. Just look at Pokey's posts on blind stealing and PT profits to see how important that aspect is.

The problem with opening up big is that other players can exploit the shortie by shoving 20BBs in the middle just as the shortie does to the fullstacks in resteal situations. Just look at skier5's recent post as of this morning to see some fullstackers have figured that out.

However, the good news is the shortie can effectively open up for a smaller raise. For one, think implied odds. Go back and read Goofyballer's work on suited connectors or Dan Bitel's PSA on these are the implied odds you need. With fullstacks, one has to raise a decent amount to not allow other fullies to use the 5/10 rule against them. However, it is not near that important for a shortstack. If a shortstack has 20BBs and raises 2.5BB to open, he is already above and beyond 10% of his stack!

In addition, just think in terms of SPR (stack-to-pot ratio) first discussed in PNLHvI. A shortie raises to 2.5 and is called after starting with 20BBs. The stack is now 17.5 compared to a pot of 5 to 6. That is a very easy SPR to play. It's quite easy to get all the money in if that is what the shorty wants to do. There is no rule that it should be all in on the flop. To play allin by time the flop betting is done means the shorty has to start with a ridiculously tight range in order to ensure that s/he will be way ahead even after the flop so often. With an SPR below 4, it shouldn't be hard for the shorty to get it in, but it still allows some play after the flop.

All of this allows shorties to have dynamic ranges. It makes counter-plays much more difficult for competent fullies as they cannot be sure that the 876r flop missed the shorty. This allows the shorty to actually play poker and use blind steals, position, aggression, etc. Shortstacks limit the importance of position, but it doesn't completely eliminate it.

For instance, by opening smaller, a shorty can effectively raise 25% and up on the button and follow up with 3/5 pot c-bets quite often.

If you do the datamines of the successful 6max shorties, you'll see their stats are only slightly tighter than the normal TAG on general. Their hand range is still quite large.

Now, some will fear being 'outplayed' postflop. That is still an issue. We'll get to some stuff on this in a later lesson. However, the shorty should familiarize her/himself with common equity calculations for hands v range on different types of flops. YOu'll find that as long as you're not atrocious, it's tough to make that big of a mistake postflop. After all, there are not many BBs in play and you should have some semblence of how to play poker postflop and how to read opponent ranges.

[CalledDownLight]

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MT2R: You're a [censored] idiot. I'm sick of you idiots posting info about shortstacking to try and get attention. You're not good. You're not cool. You're probably not even a winning shortstacker at decent limits. Shut. the. [censored]. up.

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Okay, Kurosh can take a day off to cool his boots.

Next one gets 2 days, and so on and so forth.

db

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why is this banworthy?

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mainly because it is massive trolling IMO

he's a shorstacker who I datamined to learn many things and once claimed he could ruin online poker by posting his guide to shortstacking yet calls out another poster for being an attention whore because that poster is actually sharing information

my guess is he thinks his bucket is being stolen, but I don't want this thread to devolve into personal attacks now that information is actually coming out. So, I apologize and really have no idea why Kurosh is so against my posts.

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I guess, but it seems like if calling someone an idiot or whatnot is grounds for a ban then most of 2p2 should be banned.

[CalledDownLight]

When I double up is it best to add some more and play a 80 or 100 BB stack or stay at 40 for the rest of the orbit given that 40 is awkward?

[CalledDownLight]

teacher:

Do you have a good way to remember which tables you already ratholed so you don't try to sit back in immediately. This happens to me a lot where I click a table and then it wants me to buyin for like 42 BB and I'm like "wtf, no." How can I better remember what tables I've left as I seem to forget a lot when 24 tabling and wasting a little time causes me to time out on occasion.

[MyTurn2Raise]

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When I double up is it best to add some more and play a 80 or 100 BB stack or stay at 40 for the rest of the orbit given that 40 is awkward?

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best to leave and find a new table unless you have the god seat on a complete idiot....then, you should've bought in full long ago

[1p0kerboy]

teacher:

Are you saying that there are instances where you raise preflop, bet the flop, and yet sometimes fold before you get to showdown?

[MyTurn2Raise]

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teacher:

Are you saying that there are instances where you raise preflop, bet the flop, and yet sometimes fold before you get to showdown?

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a few, but one must be careful

a future lesson is coming on when a two-street game is right and you'll see a weapon that is great for teh shortstacker and against the shortstacker


it depends on your reads---history with the villain, villain tendencies, etc


besides being right to fold sometimes to save bets, this method helps you get all the villains' chips more often

[CalledDownLight]

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When I double up is it best to add some more and play a 80 or 100 BB stack or stay at 40 for the rest of the orbit given that 40 is awkward?

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best to leave and find a new table unless you have the god seat on a complete idiot....then, you should've bought in full long ago

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I mean if I double in the SB and now have 7 free hands. Play with 40 or buyin full? Also, please answer my second question about how to rathole more efficiently.

[GiantBuddha]

You can jot down the first couple letters of the table name and the time you left. I did this for awhile.

[MyTurn2Raise]

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teacher:

Do you have a good way to remember which tables you already ratholed so you don't try to sit back in immediately. This happens to me a lot where I click a table and then it wants me to buyin for like 42 BB and I'm like "wtf, no." How can I better remember what tables I've left as I seem to forget a lot when 24 tabling and wasting a little time causes me to time out on occasion.

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no...I don't have an easy method

just trying to remember is the best I can do