Official arguing about caffine thread

[RedBean]

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RedBean:
Read this article and along with his comments from other night, tell me Barry isn't bitter?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...=032&sc=124


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I've read that piece, and what it does tell me is that Bruce Jenkins certainly thinks Bonds is bitter, and he wants you to think that too.

When you realize the whole colorfully worded narrative is describing Bonds' desire to leave the park early after his final game and spend that emotional time with his close friends and family, then you have to wonder....um....where in the abscence of the author's assertions does Barry himself appear bitter?

Take away the author's opinion and narrative interpretation....and it's not anywhere to be found.

Which goes back to this...I watched the game, and you read about it in the newspaper.

As a result, we come away with two stark differences in perception of it. Mine from what I saw, your's from what Bruce Jenkins told you to believe.

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Why didn't Barry play any the last two weeks (except the last game) if he was still taking BP?


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He was hurt, that's commonly accepted as fact.

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Why didn't he participate in the tribute for him?


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He came out of the game in the sixth, they gave him the standing O, a real emotional time, and then they showed on the jumbotron as he exited the dugout, walked to the clubhouse, and left to be greeted by close friends and family....it was the guy's last game ever in a place he played 15 consecutive years, a place he practically grew up with as a boy when his father and Willie played....and he chose to spend that emotional time with his friends and family, including his elderly mother and three young children, who aren't exactly available to be hanging around in the clubhouse into all hours of the night while they what for Big B to sit on the bench for 3 innings after he came out the game for the sake of posterity, or to satisfy potential critics.

And oddly enough, masses of fans...thousands of them in attendance... chose to get up and leave as well, once they saw it abundantly clear on the jumbotron that the big man had seen his last action, and that the era was over.

That he didn't hang around on the bench for a final 3 innings and then run out to throw baseballs into the crowd, or conform to your notions of how things should be handled doesn't make him anymore of a prick than it makes you one for thinking these guys should be robots that should act how you want them to act.

What do you do in that situation?

Do you make your mom and young kids sit in the clubhouse apart from you for another hour and half on the most emotional day of your career, and then expect to greet them alongside a throng of vitriolic reporters who are allowed to gather around and ask all sorts of leading and asinine questions in an attempt to rain on your moment and embarass you in front of your family?

Or do you bow out with grace, acknowledge your fans and teammates, and exit once your out of the game....attempting to just fade into the distance rather than demanding all the attention.

The thing you don't understand is that Barry Bonds doesn't ask for the attention, and has said many times he would prefer not to have it....he just wants to play baseball and when he's off the clock, he just wants to be able to spend time with his family.

He's not being beamed into your living room and trying to hock Buicks, Deodorant or Sports Drinks.

He doesn't care about your image of him, he only cares what the people close to him think, and apparently, that bothers alot of folks.

Bothers them a LOT.

[BigSoonerFan]

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You mentioned before the hatred at him far surpassing Gretzky, Jordan, and Woods....and I'd agree.

Hell, at times it seems like the vitriol is more similar to OJ, Bundy, and Gacy than it is similar to any other sports figure.

And then you sit back and shake your head when you remember that Bonds hasn't actually done anything to anybody....aside from showing up the park year in and year out for 20+ years and launch baseballs.

I find it amazing that people can justify such seething hatred for a man they never met...true, geniune seething hatred...not just regular old disdain or dislike, or indifference...but active, geniune hatred for the man.... over his ability to play a child's game....and yet those same folks then preach about the importance of character and integrity in their baseball players, when they don't even seem to value it much in what appears in their bathroom mirrors.

I mean, seriously.

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I don't hate Barry, but I just can't root for someone who I think is a prick. I don't root for Roger Clemons for the same reason. I didn't root for Albert Belle for the same reason. There are many examples (for me). I can't speak for everyone else, but I doubt that there are very many people who hate him so much that they wish personal harm on him.

You mention Barry's press conferences and such. Barry's words aren't the only reason to criticize him. Look at his actions that last week, refusing to play in any games but the last one. Refusing to speak to the fans at the game. Refusing to attend the post-game ceremony. Actions of selfish prick.

As for having not met the man, it doesn't matter. You can judge someone by their actions from a distance. You don't have to speak to them. Besides, how is a personal discourse the best measure of man. Some of the best (and most corrupt) politicians and unethical businessmen can charm anyone. Even Hitler was probably a nice guy to most people one-on-one (to use an extreme example). That doesn't matter.

[MikeyPatriot]

It's awesome how this has come full circle to the point where RedBean is defending himself the same way he defends God/Bonds.

[RedBean]

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Oh, I forgot to mention. In that last game at SF, Barry had cleared out both his lockers and was out of the stadium before the last out. No pre or post-game interviews. No news conference. No tribute on the field (where his teammates were waiting).


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I can't figure out why you immediately assume this makes him bitter?

Did you watch the game at all?

Or are you just going based on what you read in the newspaper?

His teammates weren't waiting on him, for one, everyone in the park knew that he left in the 6th when he gave the curtain calls to the standing O and then the cameras showed him up on the Jumbotron going up to the clubhouse and leaving with family.

Along with about 20,000 of the fans in attendance leaving in the 6th as well.

But don't let that bother you....you read in the paper that the big bad wolf was a big bad prick because he had the nerve to forgo spending an emotional time answering reporters questions and instead chose to be with family.

Don't let that get in the way of the hate, man. Don't think of Bonds as some kind of human, just keep thinking of him as some sort of scary monster that we tell stories about to scare children and make them go to bed on time.

I mean, seriously.

[RacersEdge]

This guy is going to be bitter/angry about something new every week. It's time he just ride off into the sunset.

As far as the media all contriving his image - just not possible or practical. The media isn't that powerful - they can amplify some in either direction, but to say the media is acting as a cohesive unit for the last 10 years concocting this image of Bonds is ridiculous.

[govman6767]

Ok Mr. Marsh ..... Name a group of people that really annoy you.

Ok I'll say it......

Steroid cheating son o bi%^&*
WOULD NOT HAVE WON A SERIES IF HE WAS MANAGER.
sucks at life
is a scumbag
and a racists (remember who he won't sign balls for)

[Dids]

Red Bean > *

Victor, I'm surprised by you in this thread, because you're a sharp guy and you're missing RB's point.

It's not that Bonds isn't a dick/cheater/whatever. It's that relative to how other players are covered Bonds is treated MUCH differently. The non-Bonds stories simply serve to illustrate how people respond to these types of things when they don't involve Barry.

[Dids]

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This guy is going to be bitter/angry about something new every week. It's time he just ride off into the sunset.

As far as the media all contriving his image - just not possible or practical. The media isn't that powerful - they can amplify some in either direction, but to say the media is acting as a cohesive unit for the last 10 years concocting this image of Bonds is ridiculous.

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Nobody's suggesting it's an organized conspiracy.

What I've always heard is that growing up around the game, Barry saw how sportswriters can twist what somebody says, and never really opened up to them. He was jaded (who knows if this was right or wrong) form jump and I'm sure that attitude didn't help his relationship with the media.

Much like the steriod accusations, if forced to guess, I'd say Barry's a dick. It's just that the reasons that people use to suggest this all seem so idotic.

The bigger point that Red Bean is making is that his behavior isn't that non-standard, it's just that a 20 year caustic relationship with the media means that Barry gets [censored] on where other folks get ignored.

[BigSoonerFan]

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Oh, I forgot to mention. In that last game at SF, Barry had cleared out both his lockers and was out of the stadium before the last out. No pre or post-game interviews. No news conference. No tribute on the field (where his teammates were waiting).


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I can't figure out why you immediately assume this makes him bitter?

Did you watch the game at all?

Or are you just going based on what you read in the newspaper?

His teammates weren't waiting on him, for one, everyone in the park knew that he left in the 6th when he gave the curtain calls to the standing O and then the cameras showed him up on the Jumbotron going up to the clubhouse and leaving with family.

Along with about 20,000 of the fans in attendance leaving in the 6th as well.

But don't let that bother you....you read in the paper that the big bad wolf was a big bad prick because he had the nerve to forgo spending an emotional time answering reporters questions and instead chose to be with family.

Don't let that get in the way of the hate, man. Don't think of Bonds as some kind of human, just keep thinking of him as some sort of scary monster that we tell stories about to scare children and make them go to bed on time.

I mean, seriously.

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He's a prick. Seriously. He got paid 18 million dollars to play a game (as you pointed out) and can't play for two weeks (but takes BP) and can't stick around for the game tribute? Everyone loves family, but doesn't he owe something to the fans? Obviously you don't think so.

[Dids]

Any argument ever that involves the phraes "owe something to the fans" should be rejected on face value.

Tons of vets don't play late in the season when their team is out of it for many reasons. Sometimes the team wants to play young players, sometimes they don't want to get hurt, etc.

Your posts are a textbook example of how people treat Barry differently.