New York City bans trans fats

[vhawk01]

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furthermore you have not indicated why people would need to be forcibly prevented from engaging in a transaction that has nothing but downside to them anyway.

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because it's good for someone else, the producers, and it's "hidden" in most processed food. also the manufacturers make big money savings using hydro veg oil, I'm just saying to the consumer the cost is negligable.

I mean, look at how this law came about. the people got wind that basically they were being poisoned, and asked their representatvies to stop it.

I mean, we've got the business community on the nightly news saying thank god china puts poison in our food and lead paint on our toys, if they didn't it would cost more and hurt our economy! that's good business to sell poison food I'm sure, but once the people find out, at least in some places they will try to get it stopped.

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Right, they got wind that they were being poisoned and IMMEDIATELY WENT CRYING TO MOMMY. This is disturbing to say the least. Luckily, I know full well that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so I am sure it is a tiny but vocal minority of people who are too lazy to take care of themselves and insist the government take care of it for them.

Actually, thats sort of the general problem, the squeaky wheel.

[vulturesrow]

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Does this mean we can fill in this ridiculous rabbit hole you've led us down now?

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no I'm 100% correct that hydrogenated oils don't exist in nature and that they are bad for our bodies.

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Great, but it has nothing to do with the philosophical question at hand, thus my "rabbit hole" moniker for that particular twist in this discussion.

[mosdef]

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because it's good for someone else, the producers, and it's "hidden" in most processed food.

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Consumers can refuse to buy products that don't show on the label the amount of transfats, and they can sue people that lie on their labels.

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also the manufacturers make big money savings using hydro veg oil, I'm just saying to the consumer the cost is negligable.

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So?

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I mean, look at how this law came about. the people got wind that basically they were being poisoned, and asked their representatvies to stop it.

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Correct. This is symptomatic of the insane entitlement attitude rampant in western society. Nobody owes them a guarantee of no transfats because they're too lazy to investigate and too selfish to sacrifice products they enjoy but contain transfats. They want to have their cake and eat it too AND insist that it be prepared with no transfats AND insist that no one else be allowed to have one with transfats either!

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I mean, we've got the business community on the nightly news saying thank god china puts poison in our food and lead paint on our toys, if they didn't it would cost more and hurt our economy!

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To the extent it's true, it's because people want cheaper goods more than they want safer goods, but because they have a false sense of entitlement they decide that thay wante cheaper goods AND someone else to pay to ensure that it's safer too! I want steaks at hamburger prices, but I don't think that entitles me to make a law that steaks be sold at hamburger prices.

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that's good business to sell poison food I'm sure, but once the people find out, at least in some places they will try to get it stopped.

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In a reasonable world they would refuse to eat it. They wouldn't beg their nanny state to do all the research and send the bill to someone else.

[MyTurn2Raise]

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Does this mean we can fill in this ridiculous rabbit hole you've led us down now?

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no I'm 100% correct that hydrogenated oils don't exist in nature and that they are bad for our bodies.

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LOL...the "science" behind this good food/bad food stuff is inherent with flaws. Walter Willet is LOL. I love arguments that revert to expert opinion when many question others in the field question the ground that expert stands upon.

studies of trans fats that have found negative effects neglect correlated omitted variables

The belief in 'healthy' everything has only led to a more obese society....low-fat, low-sugar, low-carb...everyone looking out for us has had their say forever and it hasn't worked.
Somehow, people in the US keep living longer and longer.

I like the taste of transfats!!!! I eat them all the time! I'm healthy. I'm making a choice. Don't chose for me. Don't take away my right to chose.




A few cents here and there in price can add up big. Not only do consumers save...Investors profit....multiplier effect....woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!

[vhawk01]

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Does this mean we can fill in this ridiculous rabbit hole you've led us down now?

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no I'm 100% correct that hydrogenated oils don't exist in nature and that they are bad for our bodies.

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LOL...the "science" behind this good food/bad food stuff is inherent with flaws. Walter Willet is LOL. I love arguments that revert to expert opinion when many question others in the field question the ground that expert stands upon.

studies of trans fats that have found negative effects neglect correlated omitted variables

The belief in 'healthy' everything has only led to a more obese society....low-fat, low-sugar, low-carb...everyone looking out for us has had their say forever and it hasn't worked.
Somehow, people in the US keep living longer and longer.

I like the taste of transfats!!!! I eat them all the time! I'm healthy. I'm making a choice. Don't chose for me. Don't take away my right to chose.




A few cents here and there in price can add up big. Not only do consumers save...Investors profit....multiplier effect....woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!

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While I agree with your overall point, you've got some pretty glaring logical errors there. For example, it seems pretty clear to me that the correlation between bigger, fatter people and longer lifespans is absolutely not causation and due to other factors. We might be living even longer if we weren't getting so fat. The point is, it doesn't even matter if trans-fats really ARE bad for you. Like you said, you enjoy trans-fats for whatever reason (and seriously, I don't care what your reason is, maybe its spite) and you are healthy, because you make choices and you deal with the consequences. Some people refusing to deal with the consequences shouldn't result in the loss of choices for those of us who do.

[PLOlover]

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Right, they got wind that they were being poisoned and IMMEDIATELY WENT CRYING TO MOMMY. This is disturbing to say the least. Luckily, I know full well that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so I am sure it is a tiny but vocal minority of people who are too lazy to take care of themselves and insist the government take care of it for them.

Actually, thats sort of the general problem, the squeaky wheel.

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the solution is to ban manufacturers from using hydrogenated vegetable oils, for the same reason that manufacturers were banned from using red dye # whatever cancer thing.

until then things like new yorks laws will be a band aid approach.

labelling is a good idea but unfortunately in practice the food companies can get away with lying and so labels ultimately cannot be trusted.

[pvn]

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Right, they got wind that they were being poisoned and IMMEDIATELY WENT CRYING TO MOMMY. This is disturbing to say the least. Luckily, I know full well that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so I am sure it is a tiny but vocal minority of people who are too lazy to take care of themselves and insist the government take care of it for them.

Actually, thats sort of the general problem, the squeaky wheel.

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the solution is to ban manufacturers from using hydrogenated vegetable oils, for the same reason that manufacturers were banned from using red dye # whatever cancer thing.

until then things like new yorks laws will be a band aid approach.

labelling is a good idea but unfortunately in practice the food companies can get away with lying and so labels ultimately cannot be trusted.

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If they're going to break labelling laws (i.e. commit countless acts of fraud - one every time a product is sold) why would they observe a ban on using hydrogenated oils?

[PLOlover]

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If they're going to break labelling laws (i.e. commit countless acts of fraud - one every time a product is sold) why would they observe a ban on using hydrogenated oils?

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because they don't break the labelling laws, they basicly write/have written the laws to their favor so they don't have to disclose anything they don't want to.

look into the following and see what I mean
a) country of origin labelling (banned or not required I don't remember)
b) gmo labelling (absolutely banned, cannot put non-gmo on your label because any labelling of gmo is banned)
b1) bovine growth hormone label deal with milk, although this might have been changed but at one time there was some funny business here.
c) the term "organic" and how it has been redefined. basically if a product is x% organic ingredients it can be labelled "organic". x is somewhere between 5 and 10 I think. LOL

[pvn]

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If they're going to break labelling laws (i.e. commit countless acts of fraud - one every time a product is sold) why would they observe a ban on using hydrogenated oils?

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because they don't break the labelling laws, they basicly write/have written the laws to their favor so they don't have to disclose anything they don't want to.

look into the following and see what I mean
a) country of origin labelling (banned or not required I don't remember)
b) gmo labelling (absolutely banned, cannot put non-gmo on your label because any labelling of gmo is banned)
b1) bovine growth hormone label deal with milk, although this might have been changed but at one time there was some funny business here.
c) the term "organic" and how it has been redefined. basically if a product is x% organic ingredients it can be labelled "organic". x is somewhere between 5 and 10 I think. LOL

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So if "they" write the laws, why would they write one that banned something they want to use?

This is getting more and more incoherent.

[PLOlover]

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So if "they" write the laws, why would they write one that banned something they want to use?

This is getting more and more incoherent.

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exactly. right now the drug companies run the FDA and how drugs get approved, the food corporations run how the foods are regulated, the meat industry runs the USDA, etc.

until that changes laws will only help them and not the consumer, at least not on purpose. this is why local things the new york thing are a good start to empower the people.

the easiest way to look into this is how drugs are approved and how the FDA basically just takes the drug companies word for their research and how FDA scientists and drug company scientists (and political appointees and ceos) have a revolving door, much like congressmen and lobbyists.