Does Pokerstars have the right to take money out of my account?

[TheEye]

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OP, this is from Pokerstars Terms & Conditions, an agreement that you signed and is binding:

"3. AUTHORITY. PokerStars retains authority over the issuing, maintenance, and closing of Users' accounts at PokerStars. The decision of PokerStars' management, as regards any aspect of a User's account, use of the Service, or dispute resolution, is final and shall not be open to review or appeal."

Your witness.

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wow...and do you believe that generic condition(issuing, maintenance, and closing of accounts) enables ps to take money out of anyones account as they wish?...then I would say ps is untouchable...if anything goes wrong in the future with the company then they could just confescate all players account money and the shareholders would become all billionaires covered by law with the condition you just posted above...why not just donate them our money instead?...

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Yes, that generic condition does enable them to do just that. They could take everyone's money and we would have no legal recourse. What stops them from doing that is that they make more money by running a legit business.

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Imagine ps doesnt find a way around the U.S anti-gambling legislation and they loose half their customers, which would obviously be a great downfall to their business...(i am not saying ps is not making more money by running this business in evr1s favour)..however then it would still be a legit business for them if they can count on the condition you are refering to as a means to take every1s money out of their account....so thats legit as well....would you take such a risk if you were 1 of their customers?

[TheEye]

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TheEye,

If PokerStars had let you keep the money and if the guy came to you and told you that it was an honest mistake and gave you the name of the person he was trying to send it to, would you have given the money back?

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irrelevant...this is not about me c*nting off someones money

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Regardless of its relevance, can you just answer the question?

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still irrelevant...but yes...if i was asked politely i would have given that money back...

[TheEye]

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Full Tilt has the opposite policy here.

This isn't as clear an issue as everyone is saying. Otherwise, I could offer to trade someone stars $s for FT $s and then after receiving the FT $s e-mail stars and say it was a mistake.

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No, you couldn't. Did you read the post from the Stars rep here? They only reroute the money if a spelling or obvious error was made.

Example:
You want to send money to "Rounders1", send it to "Rounders" by mistake. They will transfer money to "Rounders1" NOT BACK TO YOU.

You want to send money to "JoeyKnish", but send it to "Rounders" by mistake. This transaction will not be reversed.

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although i never transferred money to anyone through ps i also read that you have to choose the persons city or something when completing the transfer hence it was not just the case of an extra number after ther *username*
+i dont belive the transfer was intended to someone that has the same username as me with a number or letter addition addition at the end

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Who cares what you believe? Pokerstars has the records, so if you took this to court, they could just show their transaction records and you'd have no case here. It's not like the original sender had buyer's remorse, he couldn't get the money back anyway.

You have no case. It's called "undo enrichment", you were never entitled to that money and have no claim to it.

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dude...let me make this clear again...i am not claiming anyones money...i am protesting that pokerstars withdrew money from my account without my consent

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We get that. And then it was pointed out to you that their T&C say they're allowed to do that. And you responded by saying "Well if they could do that then they could just steal from anyone they wanted", which really had nothing to do with the issue since they weren't just randomly taking money from you, but rather they were looking at a series of events and making a logical decision to the best of their abilities.

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i d rather depend on facts and cases than anyones logic..

[fatshaft]

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Am I elgible to pursue this matter legally? imo and others yes.

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What Isle of Man law gives you this standing?


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I was wondering when this would come up? Please do tell what expertise your lawyer has in Manx law?

[TheEye]

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Full Tilt has the opposite policy here.

This isn't as clear an issue as everyone is saying. Otherwise, I could offer to trade someone stars $s for FT $s and then after receiving the FT $s e-mail stars and say it was a mistake.

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No, you couldn't. Did you read the post from the Stars rep here? They only reroute the money if a spelling or obvious error was made.

Example:
You want to send money to "Rounders1", send it to "Rounders" by mistake. They will transfer money to "Rounders1" NOT BACK TO YOU.

You want to send money to "JoeyKnish", but send it to "Rounders" by mistake. This transaction will not be reversed.

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I love people that defend pokerstars no matter what they do. As it turns out, the person that transfered OP the money just finished a tournament with OP. Then pretty soon after (presumably) the transfer was reversed.

Are we to presume that OP's Screenname just so happens to be one digit off of the screename of this person's buddy? That would seem almost impossible. Of course OP could be lying, but pokerstars refuses to comment on the matter, so we are left with OP's version.

FT's policy is one that is definitive and doesn't rely upon the judgment of others. A very strong case could be made for FT's policy being better.

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You make some good points, but re-read what was said in the OP:

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After the end of a tourney the winner(who actually kicked me out of the final table and got a prize worth $20k) tranferred to my account $1000 which i believed was his goodwill and I was thankful to him.

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OP never mentions a deal being made at the final table. Do you really think the winner of the tournament just randomly decided to give $1000 to someone else who made the final table? I mean, does that make any sense at all? And then he goes back and asks for the request to be changed? What exactly would be his motivation there?

I think what happened is that the OP and the tournament winner's friend were somewhat alike, and the tournament winner had the OP's username on his mind since he just played with him.

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i remember watching a sunday million where the 3rd place winner was asking Lee Jones(ps manager) for his address to send him a present because he just won a large sum of money...that was his goodwill...and yes that can happen...especially in a case where the winner of a tourney gets $20k adn 2nd place just lest than $200...not mentioning I had a friendly chat with the 1st place winner and I was the only one i wished him to have fun with his winnings when it was over...

[TheEye]

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Presumably this PS policy is for some time there. How many times have you read about a fraud occuring because of that?

And in your opinion if a person made an honest mistake by mistyping some id then he or she deserves to lose their $1,000 or $100 or even $10?

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mistyped id?...as i said i dont belive the intended recipient a letter different from my username.+ a cit has to be chosen as well?
..and yes...ps t&s states clearly that you are using their software at your own risk..paragraph 4

[TheEye]

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Presumably this PS policy is for some time there. How many times have you read about a fraud occuring because of that?

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About as many times we have heard that people mistakenly shipped 1,000 to the wrong person.



[/ QUOTE ]And in your opinion if a person made an honest mistake by mistyping some id then he or she deserves to lose their $1,000 or $100 or even $10?

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Generally speaking when people make mistakes don't they lose something?

I am not saying that Stars policy is awful or even wrong. I am just saying that i prefer FT"s black and white policy and i am pretty sure that if the policies were reversed people would still defend stars.

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most people count on black and white and not someones logic on making decisions with their accounts

[fatshaft]

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Laughing at me in the PS affice?...well maybe they are..however if I was running a business and my employees would sit down and laugh at one of their better customers keeping at least 6 FR tables alive day in day out and the risk of loosing future customers because he would beatch at the biggest poker forum that ps acted without solid grounds on this matter, then I would be absolutely furious that my employees just sit down and laugh at his expense rather than try to find a solution to the matter...

[/ QUOTE ]But you miss the point. Part of the reason they will be laughing at you, is because you think they are making them look bad in the eyes of other players. Unfortunately for you, you are making PS look BETTER to everyone on here, with a resolution to your problem that virtually everyone agrees is fair and just.

[TheEye]

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Do we know what OPs screen name is? Some plausibility of the error would no doubt correlate to the commonality of the screen name.

Also- I'm pretty sure a rereading of stars policy would show that they don't ship the money back to original sender, only on to the intended true recipient.

I will assume that Stars does routine and not so routine checks to make sure the intended account name isn't one recently made to help make a "scam" like this work.
Put it this way... in the world of scams it would have to either be the longest of longs (planning/targeting) or the shortest of shorts, because it would be extremely difficult to repeat effectively.

The world isn't a windfall OP.

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I hate to say that hostjacob made an error when psting in here saying that the money went to the intended recipient..

let me quote:

Hello xxxxxx,

Recently you received a $1000.00 transfer into your PokerStars account
from PokerStars player xxxxxxx

This transfer was intended for another player with a user ID similar
to your own, but was misspelled by the sender.

As such, we have transferred this amount from your account back to the
sender. You should see both the incoming and outgoing transfers in
the same amount in your cashier history.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter, and for playing here
on PokerStars.

Regards,

Trent
PokerStars Support Team


This email clearly indicates that the money went back to the original sender

[TheEye]

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Laughing at me in the PS affice?...well maybe they are..however if I was running a business and my employees would sit down and laugh at one of their better customers keeping at least 6 FR tables alive day in day out and the risk of loosing future customers because he would beatch at the biggest poker forum that ps acted without solid grounds on this matter, then I would be absolutely furious that my employees just sit down and laugh at his expense rather than try to find a solution to the matter...

[/ QUOTE ]But you miss the point. Part of the reason they will be laughing at you, is because you think they are making them look bad in the eyes of other players. Unfortunately for you, you are making PS look BETTER to everyone on here, with a resolution to your problem that virtually everyone agrees is fair and just.

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as far as i can see people beatching that ps rocks and stuff are players who are allready playing for them and I wouldnt even know if these posters are ps themselves trying to convince people that they acted appropriately on this matter....if i was a new player I would greatly consider even 1 post where someone believe that ps have acted improperly and definetely look at other alternatives as well...