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#141
07-09-2007, 08:12 AM
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Re: challenge: try to describe a society more evil...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] For the umpteenth time, what difference does any of this make? If this God exists, then he must be worshipped. Maybe he is not loving. So what. Maybe he is loving and people just don't get it. I very much agree with this. [/ QUOTE ] but for the upteenth time we don't have the ability to worship something we loath. Unless you think we can pretend and he wont notice, sure we can do a bit of groveling if that keeps him off our backs but it doesn't matter. In practice we should always oppose this god and gamble on god being good, however much evidence to the contrary. chez [/ QUOTE ] This is good. Seems you do indeed have an innate understanding of the difference between good and evil. 
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#142
07-09-2007, 08:37 AM
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Re: challenge: try to describe a society more evil...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] For the umpteenth time, what difference does any of this make? If this God exists, then he must be worshipped. Maybe he is not loving. So what. Maybe he is loving and people just don't get it. I very much agree with this. [/ QUOTE ] but for the upteenth time we don't have the ability to worship something we loath. Unless you think we can pretend and he wont notice, sure we can do a bit of groveling if that keeps him off our backs but it doesn't matter. In practice we should always oppose this god and gamble on god being good, however much evidence to the contrary. chez [/ QUOTE ] This is good. Seems you do indeed have an innate understanding of the difference between good and evil. [/ QUOTE ] Sure nearly all of us do, I hear tell of a few amoral people but I've never met any. I'm not keen on the word 'evil' though as it just stand for the extreme end of things we find morally objectional, but is frequently misunderstood to be meaningless. chez
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#143
07-09-2007, 05:18 PM
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Re: challenge: try to describe a society more evil...
[ QUOTE ]
NOOOOOOO!!!!! I guarantee you that, at least for myself and many that i know, it has nothing to do w/ a 'need to believe'. We simply believe that your thought is anything but rational, and in reality far more foolish than you believe ours to be. It is nothing to the effect of, "oh, i know their arguments are sound and sensible, but I will believe anyway." With respect to the morality issue, for instance, it was clear from the start that most who I argued with were completely irrational, and continued arguing that, yes, atheism is consistent with absolute morality. Inconsistencies like these make it difficult to have any respect for many of your logical abilities. Phil exemplifies this in this thread, appealing to great scholarly advances that allow for ultimate and absolute morality in an atheistic world, and definitively categorizi ng the God of the Bible as evil. The ludicracy of such absolute standards existing in an atheistic world is clear to some of you (Sklansky included), but not to others. I have no clue why this is... [/ QUOTE ] First, as an atheist I am NOT arguing for an "absolute" morality of human interaction. I am arguing for a morality that reflects the ethical intuitions that humans have actually evolved. Second, Christian morality is not meaningfully more "absolute" than any other morality unless you either (1) prove that the Christian God exists; or (2) special plead that the Christian God exists. (1) is impossible (by definition of Christian orthodoxy); and (2) rescinds any claim of "absolute" authority because special pleading is non-absolute, again by definition.
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#144
07-12-2007, 10:54 AM
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Re: challenge: try to describe a society more evil...
You can't just rip the bible in half and completely ignore the NT. I agree the world of the OT was extremely brutal and God was often a vengeful God, but the NT changes everything. It's the fulfillment of the OT. Fwiw, I have been raised a Catholic, but I am not so sure about it anymore.
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#145
07-12-2007, 08:36 PM
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Re: challenge: try to describe a society more evil...
[ QUOTE ]
You can't just rip the bible in half and completely ignore the NT. I agree the world of the OT was extremely brutal and God was often a vengeful God, but the NT changes everything. It's the fulfillment of the OT. Fwiw, I have been raised a Catholic, but I am not so sure about it anymore. [/ QUOTE ] The NT isn't so great either. Women aren't allowed to talk in church according to the NT. Also, if a woman doesn't wear a head scarf, you're supposed to shave her bald. That's also from the NT.
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#146
07-12-2007, 08:48 PM
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Re: challenge: try to describe a society more evil...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You can't just rip the bible in half and completely ignore the NT. I agree the world of the OT was extremely brutal and God was often a vengeful God, but the NT changes everything. It's the fulfillment of the OT. Fwiw, I have been raised a Catholic, but I am not so sure about it anymore. [/ QUOTE ] The NT isn't so great either. Women aren't allowed to talk in church according to the NT. Also, if a woman doesn't wear a head scarf, you're supposed to shave her bald. That's also from the NT. [/ QUOTE ] you really dont understand the beliefs of the typical christian in america.
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#148
07-13-2007, 12:39 AM
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Re: challenge: try to describe a society more evil...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You can't just rip the bible in half and completely ignore the NT. I agree the world of the OT was extremely brutal and God was often a vengeful God, but the NT changes everything. It's the fulfillment of the OT. Fwiw, I have been raised a Catholic, but I am not so sure about it anymore. [/ QUOTE ] The NT isn't so great either. Women aren't allowed to talk in church according to the NT. Also, if a woman doesn't wear a head scarf, you're supposed to shave her bald. That's also from the NT. [/ QUOTE ] None of that was decreed by God though. Those stupid laws were a product of the culture/society. If women couldn't even vote in the U.S. until the early 20th century, I am confused as to why you are surprised that women were discriminated against and treated unfairly 2000 years ago.
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#149
07-13-2007, 01:49 AM
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Re: challenge: try to describe a society more evil...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You can't just rip the bible in half and completely ignore the NT. I agree the world of the OT was extremely brutal and God was often a vengeful God, but the NT changes everything. It's the fulfillment of the OT. Fwiw, I have been raised a Catholic, but I am not so sure about it anymore. [/ QUOTE ] The NT isn't so great either. Women aren't allowed to talk in church according to the NT. Also, if a woman doesn't wear a head scarf, you're supposed to shave her bald. That's also from the NT. [/ QUOTE ] None of that was decreed by God though. Those stupid laws were a product of the culture/society. If women couldn't even vote in the U.S. until the early 20th century, I am confused as to why you are surprised that women were discriminated against and treated unfairly 2000 years ago. [/ QUOTE ] Because he agrees with the fundamentalists that any reading of a religious text must be literal. If God didn't object to it, then he must have been okay with it, which means he is immoral at best!
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