the USA will not win another world war...

[ShakeZula06]

[ QUOTE ]
So this be the list of "most everything"?
So American Foreign policy has brought NO good to the world? No improvements for the world's condition? Could you come up with a similar list (without the bile climbing high in your throat) of the positives?


[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, I'm an anarchist. I'm an anarchist because I see that for fundamental reasons that a coercively funded, coercively enforced, territorial monopoly cannot solve problems as well as voluntary solutions available in a free market. Maybe in a few areas the US got lucky and the thing that benefitted the elites matched up with something that benefitted the rest of the world. Good for them. I can say very confidently that the US's foreign policy has (for fundamental reasons) been very -EV for the rest of the world.
[ QUOTE ]
There are many reasons. Some are other's "perceptions" of the list of things you provided, others purely because we are the dominant nationstate in the world, and others just hate our lifestyle for their own reasons (be they religious, political ambition, yearn for past gloried status, e.t.c).


[/ QUOTE ]
I listed some of these earlier. However as I said, without America propping up dictators, war profiteerring, nation building, etc, the hatred for the Americans decreases a ton. Would you disagree with that?
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Is is so difficult to realize that your perception is not necesarily ABSOLUTELY correct? Is it then difficult to recognize that other's (non US) perceptions may or may not be ABSOLUTELY correct?

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure. All I'm doing is trusting the facts. What do the leaders in the middle east talk about on TV about why they hate America? Sure, some talk about our horrible culture with MTV or letting women drive and what not, but the majority is basically just saying that America needs to GTFO of their lands.
[ QUOTE ]
I can spin it reprehensible, I can spin it meh, and I can spin it realist, and I can spin it heroic. That's all it is, SPIN.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure you can spin it different ways, but just look at the facts. The Yalta conference was about the allies increasing their control on the destabalized nations.
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Can you only find fault or do you have a proposed better solution (other than fantastical talk of the whole world suddenly devolving into AC dreamland?)


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Ah, yes didn't take long for you to pull out that attack. Who's attacking who's views now?
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CAN you accept that someone seeing things even moderately different from your viewpoint might, just possibly, NOT be ignorant?

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure I can, on lots of issues. However on this issue, saying that the Anti-American movement isn't largely because of America's Foreign policy isn't only ignorant, it's down right absurd.
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OR, is everyone who disagrees with you clearly ignorant/uneducated/hasn't seen the light e.t.c?

[/ QUOTE ]
On most issues no. There are lots of smart statists on the board. On this issue, yes.

[NewTeaBag]

A NOTE on FACTs

When I state an opinion does it BECOME FACT ipsto presto because I believe it?
NO

When you state an opinion does it BECOME FACT ipsto presto because you belive it? NO

You continually state your view of American Foreign Policy (coloured by your political leanings) as FACT. I do not accept such opinions as fact.

Ergo I shall end my participation in a debate with you, as it becomes meaningless in that we cannnot agree that YOU are profoundly, without doubt, ABSOLUETLY correct, on even basic "facts," and the sole purveyor of said facts in judging history.

I shall leave you simply with a thought. The whole world isn't black and white and full of absolutes. You are NOT always right and those who disagree with you are NOT always wrong.

Now, have a nice day. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ShakeZula06]

Yes yes, run off so that you don't have to answer this question:
[ QUOTE ]
without America propping up dictators, war profiteerring, nation building, etc, the hatred for the Americans decreases a ton. Would you disagree with that?


[/ QUOTE ]
BTW, I didn't state any opinions as facts, only facts as facts.

Peace.

[BCPVP]

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It's essentially a list of most everything America's foreign policy has done, with the negative consequences of those actions. It's not like it says "here's a list of every bad action America has taken". These actions have led to a lot of people overseas being angry at us.

But please inform us, what is the reason so many non-Americans hate us?

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you ever considered the possibility that many of the terrorists (or Islamic jihadists, or whatever) hate us because they have been taught to hate us?

[/ QUOTE ]
And why would they teach their children such things? Certainly it's not because they were bored one day and decided to hate someone. I'm not trying to justify the hate that some may teach their children or the methods they use to express such hate, but let's not pretend that no one in the Middle East, past or present, has a legitimate beef with American foreign policy for the past century.

[NewTeaBag]

Asked and answered.

BTW because you say they are facts DON"T make them facts.

[latefordinner]

Can we get back to the OP please? it's rock music and rap music that are poisioning our nation's fine youth and making them unwilling to kill or be killed in the service of a ruling class!

[NewTeaBag]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's essentially a list of most everything America's foreign policy has done, with the negative consequences of those actions. It's not like it says "here's a list of every bad action America has taken". These actions have led to a lot of people overseas being angry at us.

But please inform us, what is the reason so many non-Americans hate us?

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you ever considered the possibility that many of the terrorists (or Islamic jihadists, or whatever) hate us because they have been taught to hate us?

[/ QUOTE ]
And why would they teach their children such things? Certainly it's not because they were bored one day and decided to hate someone. I'm not trying to justify the hate that some may teach their children or the methods they use to express such hate, but let's not pretend that no one in the Middle East, past or present, has a legitimate beef with American foreign policy for the past century.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can we also NOT pretend that The US doesn't have legitimate strategic concerns in the region and that all the "beefs" are not necesarily one sided affairs?

[ShakeZula06]

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Asked and answered.

[/ QUOTE ]
Where?
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BTW because you say they are facts DON"T make them facts.

[/ QUOTE ]
I guess we'll let the reader decide.

[ShakeZula06]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's essentially a list of most everything America's foreign policy has done, with the negative consequences of those actions. It's not like it says "here's a list of every bad action America has taken". These actions have led to a lot of people overseas being angry at us.

But please inform us, what is the reason so many non-Americans hate us?

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you ever considered the possibility that many of the terrorists (or Islamic jihadists, or whatever) hate us because they have been taught to hate us?

[/ QUOTE ]
And why would they teach their children such things? Certainly it's not because they were bored one day and decided to hate someone. I'm not trying to justify the hate that some may teach their children or the methods they use to express such hate, but let's not pretend that no one in the Middle East, past or present, has a legitimate beef with American foreign policy for the past century.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can we also NOT pretend that The US doesn't have legitimate strategic concerns in the region and that all the "beefs" are not necesarily one sided affairs?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, what conflicts in the last fifty years or so have been because the US had "legitimate strategic concerns"?

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's essentially a list of most everything America's foreign policy has done, with the negative consequences of those actions. It's not like it says "here's a list of every bad action America has taken". These actions have led to a lot of people overseas being angry at us.

But please inform us, what is the reason so many non-Americans hate us?

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you ever considered the possibility that many of the terrorists (or Islamic jihadists, or whatever) hate us because they have been taught to hate us?

[/ QUOTE ]
And why would they teach their children such things? Certainly it's not because they were bored one day and decided to hate someone. I'm not trying to justify the hate that some may teach their children or the methods they use to express such hate, but let's not pretend that no one in the Middle East, past or present, has a legitimate beef with American foreign policy for the past century.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can we also NOT pretend that The US doesn't have legitimate strategic concerns in the region and that all the "beefs" are not necesarily one sided affairs?

[/ QUOTE ]
Just because people would argue the methods used in the region are harmful doesn't mean they believe we have no concerns within the region.