Wpex Stole My Money

[BuddyQ]

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It is fair to say that more than half of the site’s users use Poker Tracker.

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No, unless you have actual number to back that up, it isn't fair to say that.

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I don't think it is possible to determine the actual number, of course. So, my estimate is just that, an estimate. Based on my expierience, I think it's a fair estimate. You are free to disagree of course. Do you have any constructive comments to contribute here?

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No offense, but 1) PT is not cheap and a minority of players are going to shell out the money for it; 2) I have PT but do not use it during play; 3) even if you have it, it's not easy to set up and cumbersome to use when you are merely a recreational player.

Finally, suggesting that over half of Stars' players (about 50,000 during peak hours) are using PT is outlandish, IMO, and without actual data to back that it up, that claim should not go unchallenged due to the fact that if accepted at face value, it bolsters your argument at the expense of others' arguments. Asking you to show the substance behind your claim is reasonable.

I'm sorry that DAC's money has been frozen, but bots are against the rules, so I guess my questions would be 1) was he using a bot; and 2) did he know that using bots was against the rules?

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Dude, we are talking about WPEX. OK fine, a 'significant number of players use PT' on WPEX. Could you please respond to the substance of the post? My arguement is that the T&C's should be clear as to WPEX's poliy. How can you disagree with this? What is your point? Did you even read my post? Please see #2 of your above questions then re-read my post.

[BuddyQ]

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No PT, no bots, no player assistance software, no IM. That is how poker should be played. Thanks WPEX.

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Thats all well and good, but it should be crystal clear in the site's T&C that this is the case before they sieze your money, don't ya think?

[Misja]

I think it's great that WSEX is putting effort in preventing players from using bots.

However, to me this looks like WSEX discovered earlier already that Dac was using some bot. Then they decided to let him play, because there are not too many players at WSEX, so they didn't want to send a player away.
Then, when he wanted to cash out, they decided it was time to catch him.

I could be wrong of course, but this is what it looks like.
Also, I think it should be made more clear which 'bots' are not allowed. I understand from this thread that PT is allowed. What about AutoHotKey? What about NameGrabber?

[questions]

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Dude, we are talking about WPEX. OK fine, a 'significant number of players use PT' on WPEX.

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I agree with you that WPEX' terms and conditions should be clear.

But was he using a bot? And if so, did he know (or should he have known) that it was against the rules? That's my point.

"A significant number of WPEX players". Maybe, maybe not; why do you think that is true?

I hope this is resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

[cardman]

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No PT, no bots, no player assistance software, no IM. That is how poker should be played.

Thanks WPEX.

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Good in theory. BUT the guy played for like months on end with no intervention from WPEX until his attempt at a WPEX withdrawal. The guy should have been given a warning months ago!

[BuddyQ]

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Also, I think it should be made more clear which 'bots' are not allowed. I understand from this thread that PT is allowed. What about AutoHotKey? What about NameGrabber?

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Bingo! You win the prize. The answer to your questions is 'who the hell knows?' And, since WPEX has shown that it will sieze money if, players actions are not 'allowed' don't you think it ought to be spelled out in black and white exactly what is/is not 'allowed'. The proper and legal place for this notification is in the site's T&C, not cobbled together from a million odd postings to an obscure message board (sorry 2+2).

[Benjamin]

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I agree about kicking out players using bots, BUT

1) WSEX should kick out the players immediately when a bot is detected. Not let them play for weeks or months until finally on WITHDRAWAL, the players funds are seized.

2) WSEX should not profit from seized funds. I want proof that seized funds will be distributed to existing players in a fair manner.

3) Immediately when a bot is detected, a warning should be sent out to the player to remove the software or have his account closed. Not seize his 4K on withdrawal. What about all those weeks or months the other players had to endure of playing against this bot using player?

This sudden seizure and closure of an account only on withdrawal reeks of tolerance for the bot user while he's beating other players. Meanwhile funds are seized by WSEX on withdrawal.

4) WSEX should seriously consider banning bot users way before withdrawal time. Other players will thank them and WSEX won't look suspicious.

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Good points, I agree with all this.

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The WSEX GM has repeatedly said that the account closing and siezure had nothing to do with the cashout. He said that this guy's bot use came to light as the result of their implementation of new bot detection tools.

I totally disagree that if a bot is detected the player should be warned to remove it. Cow Manure! Bots-users need to be banned and their funds siezed.

There should, I agree with others who have made this point, be an opportunity for dialog with a manager (i.e. Nigel) where the accused is given the chance to prove his innocence.

And I agree that the T&C should be made more clear.

Mr. Balfour is well aware that PT is used by players on his site. It is fully supported to track your own play.

It's unclear whether namegrabber type programs and HUDs are prohibited. I'd say not, since they aren't mentioned explicitly.

WSEX does make it more difficult to use them, but I they aren't prohibited as far as I can see.

I mean, come-on guys, I know a lot of you at least use Gametime+ without a name grabber. If they were siezing based on HUD use we'd be hearing from a lot more than old DAC here.

[Benjamin]

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Good in theory. BUT the guy played for like months on end with no intervention from WPEX until his attempt at a WPEX withdrawal. The guy should have been given a warning months ago!

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Why do you keep repeating this? DAC made a cashout back in January no problem. The GM says his detection was the result of new tools, and he assured us that what you describe isn't how they operate.

[cardman]

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Good in theory. BUT the guy played for like months on end with no intervention from WPEX until his attempt at a WPEX withdrawal. The guy should have been given a warning months ago!

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Why do you keep repeating this? DAC made a cashout back in January no problem. The GM says his detection was the result of new tools, and he assured us that what you describe isn't how they operate.

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Good then, they'll be kicking out bot-using players proactively then from now on right? There better not be another poster coming out months from now saying that he's been using bots for months and when he went to withdraw, WPEX seized his funds then closed his count.

Don't know why the original poster isn't more pissed though. If I lost $4000, I'd be steaming. I would be angry as hell if I lost $4000. Does $4000 mean nothing to people any more?

[cardman]

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Don't know why the original poster isn't more pissed though. If I lost $4000, I'd be steaming. I would be angry as hell if I lost $4000. Does $4000 mean nothing to people any more?

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Or was it $4000 for withdrawal and more left in his WPEX account? Am I the only one who finds his nonchalance at losing thousands a bit suspicious and annoying?