WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 12.)

[primetime32]

I am a sports bettor and i try to use WSEX when they offer equal odds to other books that i use. Usually they have tougher lines, but they do offer live sports wagering which kicks ass. So they definitely get sports action out of me that they normally wouldn't get.

[JojoDiego]

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These guys are running a business for christ's sake, not a [censored] hippie commune.

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Lol, awesome!

[El_Hombre_Grande]

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The problem with the new 75% rakeback is NOT that people get 25% less and it is not bitterness either!

The problem is that people are disappointed that the 100% rakeback-model got screwed up by incompetent management. Now players have to pay 25% of the rake to keep these guys in business. The best idea in online poker got spoiled by the worst execution possible.

These 25% are an incompetence-fee, nothing more, nothing less.

By the way, I wonder what the 75% rakeback on a rather high rake means in comparison to 27-35% on a medium rake. It's certainly not the difference in hard numbers that the WPEX GM likes to advertise.

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Wow. Think of how incompetent Full Tilt and Poker Stars management must be. I's sure that you send them e-mails calling them incompetent as well, right.

Again, it really bothers me when people act this way toward the poker site that offers by far and away the best deal going. I might add that they are one of the few sites willing to put up with Americans after the BS created by the UIGEA as well. I'm not sure how insulting there management is called for here. If they would have started with 50%, and bumped it up to 75%, you'd be grinning ear to ear, but you would have less money in your pocket today.

Traffic's the problem, and its a problem it look like they are going to try to fix. FWIW, why don't you pitch your free poker plan to the biggies and see how they respond.

After they don't, then pitch them aces never lose, 75% rakeback.

When they don't respond, try pitching 50% rakeback.

When they don't respond, come back and apologize.

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A site that offers 100% rakeback must take over the whole internet world by force. If that doesn't happen they must have made a mistake somewhere. It is that simple.

Just telling people that it didn't work out and now they have to install a 25% rake is admission of defeat. It's not the idea that didn't work, it is the implementation.

If you don't see that, I can't help you.

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I'm quite sure you can't help me. Anyone who thinks insulting WSEX for handing them 75% rakeback plus $5,000 added tournies and Aces Never Lose is of no use to me whatsoever.

[El_Hombre_Grande]

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I think the best way to get crossover to the sportsbook would be to force people to wager the rakeback on the sportsbook. So if i get 100 dollar in rakeback in a week i have to do 100 dollar in sportsbets or the money go back to the WPX.

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This is so obvious and easy to implement that I don't understand why they don't do it (it's been suggested numerous times). You want to get people to bet on sports betting? Make them bet on sports to get their rake back, so they experience sports betting and maybe like it and get hooked and become regular customers. Hoping they'll magically jump from poker to the sports book just because it's the same company is a low percentage wish at best.

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My guess is that there are several legalities to consider.
But if it could be done, it would be awesome. I think that alone would loosen the games up incredibly.

[BuddyQ]

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The problem with the new 75% rakeback is NOT that people get 25% less and it is not bitterness either!

The problem is that people are disappointed that the 100% rakeback-model got screwed up by incompetent management. Now players have to pay 25% of the rake to keep these guys in business. The best idea in online poker got spoiled by the worst execution possible.

These 25% are an incompetence-fee, nothing more, nothing less.

By the way, I wonder what the 75% rakeback on a rather high rake means in comparison to 27-35% on a medium rake. It's certainly not the difference in hard numbers that the WPEX GM likes to advertise.

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Wow. Think of how incompetent Full Tilt and Poker Stars management must be. I's sure that you send them e-mails calling them incompetent as well, right.

Again, it really bothers me when people act this way toward the poker site that offers by far and away the best deal going. I might add that they are one of the few sites willing to put up with Americans after the BS created by the UIGEA as well. I'm not sure how insulting there management is called for here. If they would have started with 50%, and bumped it up to 75%, you'd be grinning ear to ear, but you would have less money in your pocket today.

Traffic's the problem, and its a problem it look like they are going to try to fix. FWIW, why don't you pitch your free poker plan to the biggies and see how they respond.

After they don't, then pitch them aces never lose, 75% rakeback.

When they don't respond, try pitching 50% rakeback.

When they don't respond, come back and apologize.

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A site that offers 100% rakeback must take over the whole internet world by force. If that doesn't happen they must have made a mistake somewhere. It is that simple.

Just telling people that it didn't work out and now they have to install a 25% rake is admission of defeat. It's not the idea that didn't work, it is the implementation.

If you don't see that, I can't help you.

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NH sir. Of course, you are right. GM, the more people playing, the greater the cross-over to sports book. Ergo, get more people on the site, and increase, entice, a greater percentage of the players to cross over and use the sportsbook. Otherwise, shut down the site as a waste of time and money.

I know, 'easier said then done.' Here is what I would try if I were king of WsexLand:

1. Be exactly like Stars/FTP in every way including names in hand histories, allowing PT, HUDS, Datamining, 8-12 multi-tabling (stop listening to cranks and crackpots like 'tuff_fish') and have top notch state of the art software (just copy every good idea off stars and FTP).

Except, don't be like the others in the following ways:

1. Offer 80% to 100% rake back on a sliding scale with your most active players getting the 100%, but the 'extra' 20% bonus must be spent in the sports book or the casino.

2. First two people who start a new table automatically get the 100% rake back regardless of their activity level.

3. The 'Aces never lose' "congratulations!" auto-banner is a great idea.

4. A cool side-bar sports book panel up the side of the table to increase, entice more sports book action, and a casino panel up the other side highlighting the +EV for Wsex casino games to increase, entice more casino action.

5. Get rid of the free-roles, use the money for advertising.

6. Get out the word that the MoneyGram deposit option is, as it is, the single best way to deposit for Americans, this seems to be some kind of secret - why?

7. Pay out the rake back every other week, make more money on the interest carry float.

I applaud the GM's and Wsex's efforts, and I want rake free poker to succeed, but i believe new measures must be enacted quickly. Also, there must be some other good ideas posted here I left off.

If this didn't work, THEN I would shut down the room and say gg to the rake free experiment. Its too soon to conclude 'it just isn't working'

[jafeather]

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4. A cool side-bar sports book panel up the side of the table to increase, entice more sports book action, and a casino panel up the other side highlighting the +EV for Wsex casino games to increase, entice more casino action.

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I kinda like this. Your SideLines program isn't too bad. Problem is I never remember to fire it up. When I want a line, I just go to a webpage.

If you built something similar to sidelines into the side of your poker lobby or tables, and crammed the lines down your players' throats, your bound to get some extra bets from it.

[Greenmachine]

sorry to get off topic a bit, but it seems like checks are getting further and further behind. i requested a courier check on june 18th and i have called a couple times over the last few weeks and each time they tell me oh its being processed tommoroow call back for tracking number. I just called and they said it was just sent to processer yesterday expect check by late next week. so that would be 2 1/2 to 3 weeks depending on when i get it and that is with paying 30 bucks. I will keep everyone posted on when i get it

[PLOlover]

also as much as I hate to say it the skill based promos are probably bad for the game (aces never lose) whereas luck based promos would attract a better type of player (jackpot).

I think a fundamental problem is that most of the stuff was catered to skill players, then a lot of them were alienated by no HUD policy, whereas for the luck based player there was really nothing for him, although now theyve got some really great tourneys to shoot for.

Maybe something like give everyone what they want, HUD back for skilled players, tempered by being able to change name every month or two or three like at party, get rid of the aces never lose promo and institute some sort of jackpot or luck based promo, and maybe change the game structure to make luck play a bigger role, eg, small blind 2/3 instead of 1/2 the big blind, maybe even some ante tables for holdem. I think this would make a difference cause there are websites that list things like average pot size and stuff for limits of the poker rooms and if your tables have high pot sizes people may want to check that out to see what is going on.

Also just a tight integration of the sportsbook into the poker client would help as has been said because just like at party when they put the blackjack button on the poker tables people played them, I think the same thing would happen with the sportsbook.

[TheVerticalHour]

Fred, could you comment as to whether there will never again be 100% rakeback at WPEX? i.e., if you use these new funds to market more and it's successful, and player traffic starts booming so much so that there starts getting enough "cross-over" into the sportsbook as to generate large profit and such, would you consider going back to 100%?

FWIW, I definitely think the biggest concern/issue/suggestion would be to keep rake 100% for HU and possibly 3-handed games, if that's possible - otherwise it's not going to be worth starting new tables, which is usually what it takes to get traffic buzzing. Please respond and let us know if you would consider this, or something similar to what others suggested about a sliding scale above 75% either based on a sliding scale or FPP points, etc..

I also agree with whomever said that with the only 100% rakefree site; the fact that WPEX didn't grow to be as large as other major sites is... a sign of a really poor marketing team.

I think perhaps one thing that caused WPEX to not garner a larger player base was the fact that, initially, the software was really bad. It's completely fine now, but I suppose people were turned off by the old crashes and such.

[Banzai]

In my eyes, the biggest single problem at WPEX is player numbers.

I have an idea which might be viable but might be complete nuts. As mentioned already by myself and others getting rid of the $50 freerolls saves a load of cash (6 x 50 x 365 = $109,500). The players in these freeolls are very unlikely to be big rake players and are therefore contributing to your overheads.

Now Fred, if you have access to that cash in 1 go why not distribute it to a number of dormant accounts as a non (perhaps never?) withdrawable "bonus"?

The money could be, for example $50 for 2190 players which must be claimed and played on a particular day. Hopefully this day would see traffic like never before and the effect might snowball. In fact assuming only a 50% takeup you could offer it to 3 or 4000 accounts at the same time.

Anyone who failed to claim their "bonus" misses out and it could be offered to another account the following week or month or whatever.

I guess you could select accounts from your records which were identified as historically being at the best stakes / number of hands played etc. etc.

I know what I would be doing on a particular Thursday night if I got an email from a poker room telling me there was $50 in my account that needed playing that night.

I think it would be prudent to either restict the bonus to certain stakes LHE tables or include a T+C that x hands would need to be played before withdrawing any winnings over the free $50.


Let the flaming begin............