STTF SNG->cash thread

[Jay Riall]

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this one hurt. No read yet.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

CO ($87.55)
Button ($58.50)
SB ($274.90)
BB ($102.50)
Hero ($224.15)
MP ($78.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $10</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $6.

Flop: ($21.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $15</font>, Hero calls $15.

Turn: ($51.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $33.5 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls $33.50.

River: ($118.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $118.50

he had AK

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nh

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Is Hero c/cing the whole way in some sort of hope the Villain will stop betting at some point? I definitely like the passive play here once Hero checks the flop, but why not lead this flop?

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The hand kind of illusrated why this passive line is good. Btw, if villain is a fullstack then the turn is a standard check-fold.

[Hercules]

because if you lead this flop AK can find a fold and will not bluff off his stack like he did!
I like the way its played, although i would have pushed the flop, because we have not much more than 1/2 pot left for the turn.

[Knight Vision]

But pushing the flop is completely non-passive, though you say you like the way this hand is played. My head hurts.

[Hercules]

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But pushing the flop is completely non-passive, though you say you like the way this hand is played. My head hurts.

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check/pushing is passive, although it doenst look like.
Just look at the stack sizes! If we call and he checks the turn and we push, he`s getting ridiculous good odds with many holdings. thats why pushing the flop is mandatory to give him incorrect odds and make his play -EV.
But if you lead out, you didn`t give him the chance to spew with a cbet.
BTW, with deeper stacks i call the flop and fold to a reasonable turn bet.

[Knight Vision]

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But pushing the flop is completely non-passive, though you say you like the way this hand is played. My head hurts.

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check/pushing is passive, although it doenst look like.
Just look at the stack sizes! If we call and he checks the turn and we push, he`s getting ridiculous good odds with many holdings. thats why pushing the flop is mandatory to give him incorrect odds and make his play -EV.
But if you lead out, you didn`t give him the chance to spew with a cbet.
BTW, with deeper stacks i call the flop and fold to a reasonable turn bet.

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I suck, clearly. So I am not understanding how pushing the turn gives him better odds than c/r all-in on the flop (it doesn't, I know). You are suggesting an FE play. With QQ I like a Hero's line. With JJ I lead the flop.

[donkeykong2]

1. looks ok imo, when he minraises you r probably beat so u might fold then

2. hmmmm i m not folding this heads up. esp. against someone who has bullied u around

3. bet turn here and call all in i think, he only has 2/3 of a full buyin here. crai on turn might be good too. as played fold river. super small bet on turn is suspicious imo.

4.looks ok, i dont think u could call a reraise this deeb

5. u might reraise turn. as played i think i would call

6. vnh [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. fold pf bet turn.

[Hercules]

Knightvision, whats the big difference between QQ and JJ in this spot, if you look at the stacks. He will cbet like 90% of the time, so our basic idea is to get as much value out of weaker holdings as possible.
The point of the line is the following:
If you are beat, the money will go in any way. BUT: If you are ahead, you want him to donate as much as possible. So what hands do you think you will get value out of if you lead???
AK/AQ are the hands you wanna milk out the most. But if you lead the flop you give them a chance to fold. Unless Villain is overaggro with AK, check-raising is always the right play here IMO

[DevinLake]

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whats the big difference between QQ and JJ in this spot

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First let me say, I liked the way Al played this hand.

But, there is a big difference between JJ and QQ in this spot. For one, there are less scare cards that can come for QQ. There are only two overs as opposed to three to the JJ.

Second, QQ beats more hands that will like this flop, ie. JJ loves this flop.

These are significant differences.

[Knight Vision]

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whats the big difference between QQ and JJ in this spot

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First let me say, I liked the way Al played this hand.

But, there is a big difference between JJ and QQ in this spot. For one, there are less scare cards that can come for QQ. There are only two overs as opposed to three to the JJ.

Second, QQ beats more hands that will like this flop, ie. JJ loves this flop.

These are significant differences.

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Word.

Now, Devin, I don't like the check/call flop as much as a raise, because we are going to hate an over on the turn. As I said, I like the line with QQ. With the Villain's stack size, we are going to feel obligated to check/call again with pretty much any turn and JJ is just not going to hold up often enough.

So, that's why I like a lead on the flop. Can you explain what you like about the JJ check/call line?

[gumpzilla]

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Now, Devin, I don't like the check/call flop as much as a raise, because we are going to hate an over on the turn. As I said, I like the line with QQ. With the Villain's stack size, we are going to feel obligated to check/call again with pretty much any turn and JJ is just not going to hold up often enough.

So, that's why I like a lead on the flop. Can you explain what you like about the JJ check/call line?

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The hand in question is a pretty good example; you've gotten AK to bluff off the rest of his stack, which is a pretty sweet outcome for you. Getting people who c-bet all the time to c-bet here with 6 outs is a pretty sweet situation for you. EDIT: For this reason, I will frequently c-bet a little less with AK here than I would with a whiffed suited connector or small pair, particularly on boards that look inviting for small hands.