Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site

[Matt R.]

[ QUOTE ]
Iraq war veteran and demolitions expert blows the cover on 9/11 inside job.
Meet Torin Wolf. He has a broad and varied background in the US Army during Operation Iraqi Freedom, building construction contractor, certified structural welder, certified asbestos and hazardous materials worker, experienced demolitions expert, teacher, radio show host, and well studied 9/11 truth activist.
http://nationalwriterssyndicate.com/inde...28&Itemid=2

[/ QUOTE ]

Are those nipples or bullets tattood on his arm?

I also like how this Torin guy says that the "conspiracy theory" that fire brought down the WTC is crazier than the pterodactyl theory (paragraphs 8 and 9). Good thing he could easily debunk that pterodactyl theory, eh?

I liked the article.

[Bill Haywood]

Nielso, you are so credulous. Your link is full of wild, unproven assertions.

Let's take one statement from the article, and watch the evidence morphs:

[ QUOTE ]
New evidence has been released in the past month showing how the federal government allowed planes personally chartered by none other than Osama himself to get friends and family out of the country after 9/11.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the quote from the FBI document:

[ QUOTE ]
THE PLANE WAS CHARTERED EITHER BY THE SAUDI ARABIAN ROYAL FAMILY OR OSAMA BIN LADEN…

[/ QUOTE ]

This is characteristic of how the linked clown uses evidence. Further, there is no explanation of where that information came from, none of the surrounding context. If you are going to believe Osama chartered the planes, don't you want to know the source? The FBI investigator is just relaying things he's heard, we have no idea where he heard it, if its credible, if the FBI considered it accurate even one day after the report. It's crap.

Further, the article links, in a roundabout way, to a New York Post article reporting that it's been reported that Osama chartered the planes. But the FBI also is quoted in the Post arcticle saying: "There is no new information here. Osama bin Laden did not charter a flight out of the U.S." So when raw information collected from the field saying OSama MAY have chartered planes, it is credible and quotable. When when the FBI concludes there's nothing to it, suddenly the FBI is no longer credible. Post article Judicial Watch misuses: http://www.nypost.com/seven/06212007...ionalnews_.htm


Here's another misuse of evidence. Conspiracy nuts suggest Saudis were allowed to sneak out of the US. But if you actually read the pdf file the above quote is from, it documents intensive, intrusive scrutiny, interrogations, and delays that the Saudis were subjected to for days until they were allowed to leave.

But there's more. The Torin clown in the article:

[ QUOTE ]
explains how the White House, in violation of the law, has bought 28 billion, “Billion with a B” in fake news.

[/ QUOTE ]

A link is included to make it look credible: http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...5fake_news.htm

You follow the link and get not a source on the 28 billion, but a list of 28 articles on the general subject of government manipulation of news. Might the figure 28 billion occur somewhere in all that? Researchers are trying to find out.

Here's another good one. The subject of the article, conspiracy nut Torin Wolf, who saved "over 120 lives" as an Army nurse, is claimed to to have won a bronze star for valor in combat, while serving at a hospital. There's a link to support this claim, it takes us to.... a Wiki piece explaining what the medal is. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but the authors provide no checkable evidence, as usual.

Nielso, you give us links, links, links, links, but no analysis yourself. You cannot be doing serious reasoning about the credibility of these claims because you cannot even recount them.

Let's recall one towering issue you've been avoiding. Torin claims that each floor would have taken .5 seconds to collapse, a claim you belief and have linked to in one form or another. In several places in this very thread, there are links to qualified sources saying that is not true, the floors could snap very, very fast with all that falling weight on them.

Explain to us in your own words why Torin (or anybody) makes a better case than say the physicist and engineer Manuel Garcia. http://www.counterpunch.org/physic11282006.html

[jono]

part 1 of 4

part 2 of 4

part 3 of 4

part 4 of 4

Did not want a new thread so bumped this one. Can people who watch these videos comment on them?

[jono]

cliffnotes

<u>Part 1</u>
-The building of the World Trade Center
-President George Bush claims to have seen the plane crash into the South Tower at the time in which in happened--even though the first crash wasn't televised at the time
-Les Robertson (WTC structural engineer) and Frank A. DeMartini (Manager, WTC Construction &amp; Project Management) tell how they built the WTC with plane crashes in mind
-Jonathan R. Barnett, Ph.D. (Worcester Polytechnic Institute) says that he had never seen a protected steel structure collapse in a fire
-James H. Fetzer, Ph.D. (Professor of Philosophy at the University of Minnesota, Deluth) and Jeff King (MIT engineer/research scientist) give their synopsis of the WTC collapses.

Also:
-The melting point of steel
-Properties of the WTC steel
-Burning temperatures of kerosene-based jet fuel
-Temperatures in the WTC on 9-11
-Black smoke as an indicator of an oxygen-poor fire.

<u>Part 2</u>
-Eyewitnesses recall multiple "explosions"
-NBC's Pat Dawson relates that FDNY's Fire Safety Chief, Albert Turi thought that there were "devices planted in the building"
-William Rodriguez (20+ year WTC employee, and last survivor to exit the WTC) gives his statement of multiple explosions from "lower floors"
-James H. Fetzer, Ph.D. (Professor of Philosophy at the University of Minnesota, Deluth) and Jeff King (MIT engineer/research scientist) tell why the WTC collapses had to be the result of demolitions
-Morgan Reynolds (ex-labor department economist during President George W. Bush's first term) tells why he thinks that the WTC was the result of a controlled demolition
-Larry Silverstein recalls the orders to "Pull" WTC #7 on a PBS documentary

Also:
-Information about CDI, (Controlled Demolition, Inc.) the company which was hired to remove the remains of the WTC
-Actual demolition footage
-WTC explosions recorded by Columbia University's seismographs
-Evidence of squibs
-Only known footage of the first plane hitting the first tower
-Pre-positioned explosives would have been necessary
-Marvin P. Bush, the president's younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport.

<u>Part 3</u>
-CNN reporter discusses the possibility of explosives at the base of the towers
-Dallas Landmark Tower Demolition
-Scott Forbes (IT Specialist - Fiduciary Trust employee, WTC) and William Rodriguez (20+ year WTC employee, and last survivor to exit the WTC) recall strange happenings at the WTC during the weeks prior to 9-11
-William Rodriguez shares what he heard on the 34th floor on 9-11
-Brian Clark (Volunteer Fire Marshall) and Stanley Praimnath (survivor - 81st floor) share their experiences after exiting the south tower.

Also:
-Evidence of blast damage in the WTC lobby
-Power downs and evacuation drills at the WTC prior to 9-11

<u>Part 4</u>
-BBC news update that WTC #7 has collapsed (this footage aired BEFORE #7 actually collapsed)
-Larry Silverstein (WTC leaseholder) recalls the orders to "Pull" WTC #7 on a PBS documentary
-Rudy Giuliani reveals that he had been given advanced warning that "the World Trade Center was going to collapse"
-video of a woman in uniform announcing to the crowd that the tower was "about to collapse"
-video of the ground shaking just seconds before the collapse
-Danny Jowenko (Dutch professional demolitions expert) reaffirms his statement that he believes that the WTC had to have been brought down by demolition
-Thermal hot spots of ground zero--taken on September 16th and September 23rd, 2001
-Evidence of thermite having been used to bring down the WTC
-footage of the red-hot rubbel at Ground Zero
-Photos of steel buildings which have burned (and never collapsed), including:
Caracas, Venezeula: A 56-story office tower burned for 17 hours
Taiwan: Building burned for an hour and a half
Los Angeles: 62-story Interstate Bank Building burned for four hours
Madrid, Spain: 32-story Windsor Building burned for two days
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: The 38-story One Meridian Plaza building burned for 18 hours.

[kerowo]

Now the bump has meaning.

[Kaj]

[ QUOTE ]
part 1 of 4

part 2 of 4

part 3 of 4

part 4 of 4

Did not want a new thread so bumped this one. Can people who watch these videos comment on them?

[/ QUOTE ]

My favorite part from Video 3. They show some random dude on camera speculating that there may have been bombs at the base of the towers, then they show a controlled demo of a Dallas tower and say something like: "Notice the billowing dust clouds from the controlled demolition?"

Ummm, yeah, I noticed that! I think its because a huge freaking building fell down, not unlike the WTC towers! What I didn't notice however, was a single camera shot of huge explosions at the base of the WTC towers like I saw during the controlled demo. And there were only like, what, every freaking news camera in the world trained on the WTC towers when they fell...

[jono]

[ QUOTE ]
They show some random dude on camera speculating that there may have been bombs at the base of the towers

[/ QUOTE ]

There was one random dude speculating. But many experts giving testimony. Are you discounting this?

[jono]

the temperature of burning jet fuel (kerosene) is about a thousand degrees below the melting point of steel.

the fires were producing rich black smoke, indicative of fuel-rich, oxygen starved, cool burning flames.

the fires burned for only 56 min, and 1:23 minutes in WTC2 and WTC1 respectively, while the steel was certified to withstand 2000 degree fires for 6 hours.

in the history of high-rise buildings, number that have went down due to fire aside from 9/11: 0

both WTC building were designed to withstand a jumbo jet crashing into it - yet they went down at freefall speeds.

*please point out if any of these above are wrong

[jono]

Washington Post: 9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon

[jono]

is nothing wrong with the above 5 statements?