jimmy rollins NL MVP

[MikeyPatriot]

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Being a stathead doesn't (or shouldn't) take away from enjoyment of the game. But that's different than end of season awards voting.

Really, it wouldn't be *that* difficult to simply come up with some sort of composite computer ranking and give someone the Sagarin Award For Most Statistically Valuable Player. But in an award that is voted on by the media, you can't simply dictate to them that you have to vote for whoever has the highest composite VORPECOTAOPS, or whatever. Because then, it's not a vote -- just go to the fkn computer and have it print a name and hand out the award.

But then, you'd have to re-award all those awards from previous years, as well.

The awards are voted on by the BBWAA, not by the computers at BP. So just because it's different doesn't make it wrong.

I still think Holliday got jobbed, but its not as if Rollins winning is ludicrous, and has more to do with writers' lack of exposure to Holliday all season long (compared to Rollins and Wright), and less to do with their perceptions of road OPS or VORP.

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Sports writers are [censored] retarded though.

[MikeyPatriot]

Mbillie and others who think using deep stat analysis in year-end awards and sports debate makes things boring,

How would you feel if Curtis Granderson won the AL MVP award this year?

[bottomset]

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this isnt the best player award, it is the most valuable player award. THe idea is to win games, and a guy like Hanley on a team that didnt win a lot of games gets less consideration than a guy on a team that does

But i guess this doesnt answer your question does it. My ballot probably would have had Wright 2nd place behind Rollins -- mostly yes because the Phillies won the division. So i guess i am as dumb as the voters


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no all you are saying is value other 24 guys is more important that true value for the individual

if player A is worth 12wins, the rest of his team is worth 60
player B is worth 11wins, the rest of his team is worth 85

player A is more valueable, playerB's team is better its pretty simple(as long as playing time is pretty close)

the best player(for the season) by definition has the most value

[Wynton]

I concede that stats should predominate, and that the voters do not use the correct ones. I'll concede that most people at this forum understand the stats much better than the voters. And I'll even concede that the MVP award should be based 95% on stats.

But isn't it still permissible to take into account leadership qualities? I know some will object that such qualities cannot be assessed objectively, particularly by those who don't observe the team on a daily basis. Just because some subjectivity occurs, though, does not mean that the factor should be utterly irrelevant.

[MikeyPatriot]

Really good Joe Sheehan article (it's part of their blog thing, so you don't have to be a subscriber).

Exerpts:

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Of course, what mattered wasn’t Rollins’ statistics, but that his teammates played well enough to help win 89 games, while David Wright’s teammates played only well enough for his team to win 88. What mattered was that Rollins, in January, called his Phillies “the team to beat” in the NL East, then went out had a career year. What mattered was that the Phillies made up a seven-game deficit with 17 games to play, and never mind that relief pitching and Chase Utley and the Mets’ bullpen woes had as much to do with that as Rollins did.

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In a close race, there’s nothing wrong with considering factors such as September performance, clutch performance (preferably with a statistical tool such as Win Probability Added, rather than anecdotes) and whether a team’s game were played in a pennant race. This wasn’t a close race, though; the gap between Pujols, Wright and Peavy and the rest of the league was more than one win, which is an enormous number in an MVP race. That they did so poorly in the voting doesn’t mean the statistics missed something; it means the voters couldn’t resist the temptation, yet again, to reward the players who produced the best stories, rather than the best seasons.

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[MikeyPatriot]

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I concede that stats should predominate, and that the voters do not use the correct ones. I'll concede that most people at this forum understand the stats much better than the voters. And I'll even concede that the MVP award should be based 95% on stats.

But isn't it still permissible to take into account leadership qualities? I know some will object that such qualities cannot be assessed objectively, particularly by those who don't observe the team on a daily basis. Just because some subjectivity occurs, though, does not mean that the factor should be utterly irrelevant.

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I don't think it's wrong to use some subjective opinion if it's the difference between Pujols, Ramirez, Wright, or Peavy. All 4 of those guys have equal cases for the NL MVP. The thing with Rollins is that he's at best the 5th best player in the league, and no amount of "intangibles" can make up for that.

[DesertCat]

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Holliday's road #s
.301 11hrs 55rbi .485 slugging .860 OPS

double those and tell me if he didnt play at Coors he was an MVP candidate

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It goes both ways. A high percentage of his road games were played in NL West pitcher's parks.

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Wrong.

A high percentage of his road games were played in NL West hitters parks.

Dodgers and DBacks had above average scoring parks, Giants were slightly below neutral. The Padres have an incrediably low scoring park, but that's only 10 out of 163 games (6%).

2007 NL Park Run Factors
1) Cubs 1.177
2) Rockies 1.160
3) DBacks 1.111
4) Reds 1.095
5) Marlins 1.068
6) Dodgers 1.053
7) Phillies 1.034
8) Brewers 1.011
9) Giants 0.987
Last Petco Park .755

[Pudge714]

I'm miserable and never entertained by baseball, I just watch it as a way to test my competency in math.
Also anyone who voted Prince Fielder over Pujols should lose their vote.

[dkgojackets]

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Holliday's road #s
.301 11hrs 55rbi .485 slugging .860 OPS

double those and tell me if he didnt play at Coors he was an MVP candidate

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It goes both ways. A high percentage of his road games were played in NL West pitcher's parks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong.

A high percentage of his road games were played in NL West hitters parks.

Dodgers and DBacks had above average scoring parks, Giants were slightly below neutral. The Padres have an incrediably low scoring park, but that's only 10 out of 163 games (6%).

2007 NL Park Run Factors
1) Cubs 1.177
2) Rockies 1.160
3) DBacks 1.111
4) Reds 1.095
5) Marlins 1.068
6) Dodgers 1.053
7) Phillies 1.034
8) Brewers 1.011
9) Giants 0.987
Last Petco Park .755

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they played 163 road games?

[mbillie1]

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Mbillie and others who think using deep stat analysis in year-end awards and sports debate makes things boring,

How would you feel if Curtis Granderson won the AL MVP award this year?

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It'd be good for a change. Arod is boring. Though I think Magglio Ordonez was better than Granderson as Tigers go. Plus he was on my fantasy team, which is +EV