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#1481
05-10-2007, 08:33 PM
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Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt
The stats tell me that they're lying through their teeth and they're botting/running a script that tells them what to do
Looking at a picture of their setup, I'd like to point a few things out A) They appear to all be using dell computers, and most likely dell monitors. I find it unlikely, if they were to doctor a picture, for them to obtain 6 monitors of roughly equal size to throw together and snap a picture of. B) I personally could work in an environment like that and actually find it comfortable (though a little more elbow room wouldn't hurt) C) Picking on the fact they're workplace isn't a mess is kinda nitty. Either they're clean, or full_tilting cleaned up before taking the picture because he doesn't want to appear as slobs However, all the pictorial proof is circumstantial evidence which we can only speculate on. The proof has to be found in the stats, but at the very least, the pictures do add some doubt to the bot theory. Edit: Glad FTP decided to finally respond to this thread. Full tilting, not revealing your "strategy" really isn't helping your case, and finally, Brandon, the lies we caught you in really negate any good will, and counters the doubt the pictorial evidence that I discussed above. Crovax 
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#1482
05-10-2007, 08:33 PM
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Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt
If they are taking notes for the purpose of using some player specific stat and using that stat as an important part of their system. That means many of the post flop plays would be dependent on the action of the other players and that "secret stat" generated by that player. I call bs. If this was true we would see WAY more variation in numbers since their action would be dependent on other players.
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#1483
05-10-2007, 08:34 PM
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Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] that was meant for the turn and river...we didn't slow play flops obv by our stats... [/ QUOTE ] And since your river bet stats are the most identical of all, I don't think there is too much "discussion" about those either. [/ QUOTE ] Once again...do you see why your logic is inconsistent?
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#1484
05-10-2007, 08:38 PM
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Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Also, one bot-like characteristic I remember is that they would often make specific bet sizes in places where any human would just go all in. Some examples. They raise pf and some short stack just calls, so it's hu. There is $25 in the pot, the short stack has $10 left. Instead of just going allin or betting $10, they would bet $18. Same if the short stack had $21 left, they would still bet $18. That would primarily be seen in the cbets, but sometimes in pf reraises too. They'd make a 3bet to 97% of a guys stack hu instead of just going allin. [/ QUOTE ] thats beacuse we use the bet pot on FullTiltShortcut script. we right click that amount gets enterd...we click the bet button [/ QUOTE ] Interesting... Then explain this comment you made earlier: [ QUOTE ] 2. When asked why each player took so long to make even the simplist of decisions, the answer was that they were discussing amongst each other what to do. Obviously, if they were doing that and making situational folds/calls/bluffs that flies directly in the face of their rigid strategy story <font color="red"> most of the decisions are bet sizing or slow playing monsters. </font> [/ QUOTE ] Why the need for 15 seconds to "bet size" if you don't size your bets?
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#1485
05-10-2007, 08:38 PM
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Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt
[ QUOTE ]
Also, regarding the timeouts. They would occasionally timeout in places most people wouldn't, like in a hu pot. The other player would donk the river or something, and it would think and think, then timeout. (And often immediately get up from the table) I can't remember once them timing out in the more traditional manner where there is a five way pot, they have nothing, got sidetracked on a different table, and forgot to hit check/fold. IMHO, FT should be able to run through their thousands of hands and find that they timed out way way less than other players who play 6-8 tables. [/ QUOTE ] This piece of evidence is meaningless. Why would a bot not act?
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#1487
05-10-2007, 08:41 PM
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Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Also, one bot-like characteristic I remember is that they would often make specific bet sizes in places where any human would just go all in. Some examples. They raise pf and some short stack just calls, so it's hu. There is $25 in the pot, the short stack has $10 left. Instead of just going allin or betting $10, they would bet $18. Same if the short stack had $21 left, they would still bet $18. That would primarily be seen in the cbets, but sometimes in pf reraises too. They'd make a 3bet to 97% of a guys stack hu instead of just going allin. [/ QUOTE ] thats beacuse we use the bet pot on FullTiltShortcut script. we right click that amount gets enterd...we click the bet button [/ QUOTE ] Interesting... Then explain this comment you made earlier: [ QUOTE ] 2. When asked why each player took so long to make even the simplist of decisions, the answer was that they were discussing amongst each other what to do. Obviously, if they were doing that and making situational folds/calls/bluffs that flies directly in the face of their rigid strategy story <font color="red"> most of the decisions are bet sizing or slow playing monsters. </font> [/ QUOTE ] Why the need for 15 seconds to "bet size" if you don't size your bets? [/ QUOTE ] Why would a bot take 15 seconds to "bet size" if it doesn't size the bets?
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#1489
05-10-2007, 08:44 PM
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Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] that was meant for the turn and river...we didn't slow play flops obv by our stats... [/ QUOTE ] And since your river bet stats are the most identical of all, I don't think there is too much "discussion" about those either. [/ QUOTE ] Once again...do you see why your logic is inconsistent? [/ QUOTE ] No, explain to me if later streets are the one place where they do diverge from a script and take into account players and board texture, etc. that the river bet is the most consistent and closest stat. If you were to alter a script and take into account other factors, like a river c/r or something, then wouldn't this be the stat with the most variation?
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#1490
05-10-2007, 08:44 PM
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Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know why, but I actually ran the numbers through (probably to come and defend nation), and statiscally speaking, ITS IMPOSSIBLE for these 4 players to have the same stats over such a big sample. It is litterally 4 Standard Deviations away from the norm. I wanted to come here and say that it was possible for there stats to be similar, but it turns out that there is less than a half percent chance. I'm not saying Nation is in on it, but mathmatically, its not only improbable, but pretty close to impossible for there stats to converge. I wanted to to make sure I did the calculations right so I brought the data to my Stats prof and he verifyed it. DONT TAKE THIS PERSONALLY NATION. [/ QUOTE ] How do you test for that, may I see the formula/reasoning? (curious)
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